(by Lisa Robinson)
It has been five years since my ‘conversion’ from being a somewhat radical charismatic to embrace a soft-cessationist position…I think. The reason I say put that qualifier on there is because I have had to wrestle through not only some doctrinal dilemmas concerning the cessation of gifts, but also some more pragmatic concerns – that of experience. That is not to say experience is the qualifier to determine what is or is not a legitimate spiritual expression, but it does challenge some cessationist positions or rather some allegations concerning cessationism.
Most notably, it is the idea that cessationism means that God has stopped speaking. This has been a common statement I have heard, most often in the form of a question, as noted by the title of this post. The statement presumes that cessationism means God has stopped speaking, except through scripture. This is a position that hard cessationists take, but not all.
However, I have come to conclude that this question misses what cessationism espouses vs. how God communicates today. Let me explain. The premise of cessationism is that revelation is complete. We see that God has revealed himself progressively through scripture and ultimately through his Son.
“God after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. And He is the radiance of His glory and exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of his power. When He made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high…” (Hebrews 1:1-3).
Here, God speaking and his revelation are inextricably linked, so that his final expression is found in Christ, who reveals God. The significance of the apostolic witness is related to the testimony of Christ as the ultimate revelation of God. Since the testimony of Christ is transmitted through the apostolic witness, the apostles teaching provide the same authority as the word of the Lord, which would ultimately become scripture. Thus, since God has already spoken in His Son, and Christ’s work is complete, this presumes that God has nothing further to say. While the continuation of all spiritual gifts is not the topic of this post, I do believe that certain gifts were to authenticate the apostolic message during the apostolic age. This is why scripture does not indicate that certain gifts have ceased because the apostles were still alive when the letters were penned. But let’s not go there.
So does this mean that God has stopped speaking? Yes…and no. If his speaking is related to His revelation, then yes, He has stopped speaking. He has already revealed Himself, Christ has accomplished the Father’s will and has established the faith once for all (Jude 3). The authoritative witness of scripture is the final authority concerning what God has wished to reveal concerning Himself, including apostolic instruction for the body of Christ. So cessationism negates schools of thought that proclaim new revelations from God concerning Himself.
However, I don’t think it means there is nothing further to say related to what that means for us. This is where I believe the ministry of the Holy Spirit plays a vital role, submitted to the complete canon of scripture as the final authority of faith and practice. Now while I do believe that John 14:25-26 is directed exclusively to the apostles as eyewitnesses, the fact that the same Spirit indwells every believer suggests that the Holy Spirit informs our consciousness concerning the completed revelation and what the Father wishes concerning specifics in our lives that scripture does not speak to. In other words, God still speaks through his Spirit concerning His desires, both individually and corporately.
In fact, I have heard a number of preachers, who I know hold to a cessationist position, indicate that in prayer we should listen to God. Now, I have become increasingly persuaded that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit bears upon our conscience that affects the immaterial part of us that comprises our volitional will, thoughts, and emotions. So a conscience that is influenced by the Holy Spirit will produce thoughts that speak to the will of God. Is it any wonder why Paul says in Romans 12:2 that we are transformed by the renewing of our mind to prove what the will of God is? Or in Romans 8:26 that the Spirit plays a role in identifying what we should prayer for when we don’t have a clue? So listening involves hearing, but the “small still voice” most likely it is our own voice that is being directed by the Holy Spirit. But that means God is still speaking.
Of course, this raises the question of words, thoughts or impressions that we get concerning others. Is this prophecy? I would say that it depends on how you define prophecy. The “word of the Lord” as described in the Bible is related to revelation. So if someone indicates they have a word from God, it can easily be confused with a presumed revelation. For this reason, I cringe when I hear someone say they have a word from God. It is the same with identifying one as a prophet. Ephesians 2:20 indicate that apostles and prophets provide the foundation for the church with Christ being the chief cornerstone. There are a few different interpretations, but the one I stick with is that these are New Testament prophets who are authenticating the apostolic message. There is more I can say about prophecy and might do a follow up post specifically addressing that issue.
But on the other hand, the ministry of the Holy Spirit can direct our thoughts to vocalize what the Spirit is bearing witness to related to others or a particular situation. I think it would be quite dishonest of me to suggest this means that God has stopped speaking, when in fact He is through the Holy Spirit. A show of hands of all who have expressed something through discernment concerning people or a situation OR who have been the recipient of such words. How can anyone deny that God is communicating in this instance?
So that is where I am 5 years later and obviously still wrestling with some finer points of cessationism vs. continuationism. In fact, I have said on many occasions that I went from being a crazy charismatic to a crusty cessationist and now live in a place called Tension 🙂
69 replies to "If God Has Stopped Speaking Then Why Do I Still Hear Him?"
Scott:
I firmly believe that the holy spirit convicts and leads a regenerated, born again believer. I feel scripture is the vehicle upon which we should test our convictions. These leadings which are spirit lead have never been an audible voice to me nor have they come to me in vision or dreams. In my Chrisitan walk they have been desires(feelings) and thoughts. These feelings could be sympathy, love, dispair, joy, etc. Our emotions God may use for the building up of his kingdom. There is nothing revelatory about that. His command is to go into all the world , to preach and tell others of Christ and his redemptive work. We are told to discipline one another through his word, that to me is what the spirit urges us to do.
Rick : Sorry, didn’t mind to imply that you were drunk, but you had mentioned that you staggered out with your beer so I assumed you were still impaired.
jim –
These leadings which are spirit lead have never been an audible voice to me nor have they come to me in vision or dreams.
What we have to consider is that these have come in dreams and visions for many, many others. And, though we many times think that, in Scripture, when it speaks of God’s voice or God speaking, we automatically think of an audible voice, it was not always an audible voice. Still, sometimes it was. Granted, I personally have not audibly heard God’s voice, and I don’t know if I can point to any close friend that has that I can think of. But there have definitely been times God has spoken as clear as clear can be, giving a revelation such as a word of knowledge, a word of wisdom, a prophetic insight, etc.
Scott,
You could be right but most times this word of knowledge and wisdom are so general in nature that I certainly would not consider it a voice from God or prophetic insight. Conviction of the holy spirit I would not consider as a charismatic gift. That has been my experience and often experiences are quite subjection and we make connections that don’t necessarily apply.
I remember a pastor annointing and praying over a bad knee of a church member (elderly) a little later during the prayer service he asked if her leg felt better to which she replied yes. He claimed a healing and answer to prayer. Within a few days the knee was bothering her even more than in the past. I am not saying anything about whether God can heal(he does) but the quick association of healing by annointing was claimed. I know God might have had a reason for a partial or temporary healing but it could have been a case of mind over matter as well. I just don’t like the jump we often make.
jim –
I agree with all you have said and appreciate it.
Just one comment with this statement: You could be right but most times this word of knowledge and wisdom are so general in nature that I certainly would not consider it a voice from God or prophetic insight.
A true word of knowledge (i.e. Jesus’ insight with the Samaritan women at the well and her multiple husbands) or word of wisdom (i.e. Solomon’s ‘in the moment’ wisdom about how to deal with the 2 mothers arguing over the baby) are specific and direct insights from the Spirit, rather than just general knowledge or wisdom we have from walking with God as Christians.
Scott,
We seem to have differing understandings of revelation and particular as it relates to Hebrews 1:1-3. When God spoke, it was to reveal Himself. Before Christ, He revealed Himself through the mechanisms cited in vs. 1. I take the “but now” to mean, that since He speaks in His son, He no longer needs to speak through the other mechanisms. Now, I recognize that the passage does not specifically indicate an abolition of such means, but it is the implication.
If God reveals Himself in His son, whom has completed the will of the Father and now sits at His right hand, what further unveiling concerning Himself is needed? But that revelation is now attested to by apostles who teach what that means for the church.
Since the believer is indwelt by the Spirit, He affirms this witness concerning Himself and particularly through God’s word. As I see it, the on-going communication is not a further revelation of God but communication of what that means for us.
(con’t) Also, I’m confused about the redemptive vs. non-redemptive distinction as you have defined it. Do you mean that this passage speaks to one and not the other? Is redemptive communication then entitled to further revelation? If so, what I am suggesting is that is the ministry of the Holy Spirit but not further revelations.
“And, though we many times think that, in Scripture, when it speaks of God’s voice or God speaking, we automatically think of an audible voice, it was not always an audible voice.”
No, this is just not correct. I think you’re understanding “audible voice” as something that you hear with your waking ears. That pretty much never happened unless it was an angel or God Himself at Sinai or with Christ revealing something. What I mean by “audible voice” is something you hear God say. He actually speaks it. But you may be hearing it in a dream or vision, not with your actual eardrums. I challenge you to find me a single place in Scripture where God speaks to our inner man and through intuitions. God may direct us with these, but when He speaks, He speaks.
Lisa –
We seem to have differing understandings of revelation and particular as it relates to Hebrews 1:1-3. When God spoke, it was to reveal Himself. Before Christ, He revealed Himself through the mechanisms cited in vs. 1. I take the “but now” to mean, that since He speaks in His son, He no longer needs to speak through the other mechanisms.
Is to speak via His Spirit, the Spirit of Christ as well, then ‘another mechanism’? That is how it was taking place after Christ’s ascension. That’s why Christ sent another just like himself to continue the same work he began.
If God reveals Himself in His son, whom has completed the will of the Father and now sits at His right hand, what further unveiling concerning Himself is needed? But that revelation is now attested to by apostles who teach what that means for the church.
It’s not so much God revealing new things concerning Himself, but revealing new things about us, our situations, and how His plans can…
Lisa –
Also, I’m confused about the redemptive vs. non-redemptive distinction as you have defined it. Do you mean that this passage speaks to one and not the other? Is redemptive communication then entitled to further revelation?
I think that Heb 1:1-3 speaks more in regards to redemptive revelation. But as to non-redemptive revelation, it still takes place. Jesus’ word of knowledge about the woman at the well. This was unequivocally a revelation (with the Son in his humanity relying on the Spirit). This revelation happens today by God’s Spirit. A person does not study another, psychologically analyse, etc. They are given a revelation by God’s Spirit. Paul recognising that a girl is filled with a demonic spirit (Acts 16:16-18) is a revelation through the gift of discernings of spirits (not psychological analysing or general wisdom).
These are revelations, non-redemptive, and they continue today. It’s about God revealing things that help us walk out His purposes today.
Hodge –
I agree with what you have said about ‘audible’ voice. I would just encourage you to consider utilising another way of explaining, i.e., distinguishing between actual audible voice and the voice of God that speaks as one hears it within via a whole host of things – the voice speaking to us, dreams, visions, impressions, etc.
I challenge you to find me a single place in Scripture where God speaks to our inner man and through intuitions. God may direct us with these, but when He speaks, He speaks.
This is hard to lay out in small comment boxes on a blog. Personal interaction would be best. But I am not talking about intuition, as if only feelings. I do believe we can sense things in God, without God’s ‘voice’ speaking. I might point to Acts 21:4 as a smaller example – it seems they were speaking forth what they sensed by God’s Spirit. I believe the revelation through discerning of spirits can be a sense, rather than an actual, ‘That person is oppressed by…
Scott : You said: “I would just encourage you to consider utilising another way of explaining, i.e., distinguishing between actual audible voice and the voice of God that speaks as one hears it within via a whole host of things – the voice speaking to us, dreams, visions, impressions, etc.”
Technically to hear something it needs to be audible. To feel something or be moved to an action through the spirit in our innermost I can understand but voices through dreams and visions I have never experienced.
They can be just so subjective and as I have mentioned before from the charasmatic’s I know , very general in detail. My wife has good intution but I don’t believe that is a gift, but maybe .
jim –
It’s ok. I don’t regularly have visions and dreams, though I do believe God has given me (maybe ‘impressed upon my mind/spirit) a visual picture to help communicate a truth-revelation of His. I think I can only remember 1, maybe 2, dreams in my whole life that I felt were God specifically speaking to me.
Yes, things can be subjective. Heck, I bet you at times the biblical writers were wondering if it was God or just them. Each follower of Christ goes through this. Thankfully we have the body of Christ and the word of God to keep us on track. But, again, I am not talking of intuition, i.e. as in woman’s intuition (though God gives those good natural abilities, gifts and talents). I am speaking of true God-communication through what we sense by His Spirit.
Let me also clarify this way.
A word of knowledge can be utilised in God’s redemptive work in the life of a person or persons. No doubt about that. Any of the gifts are ultimately there to draw people to Christ and strengthen those already in Christ. So, if we wanted to say redemptive revelation is primary and non-redemptive revelation is secondary (but tied into the great redemptive work of God in Christ), I am very good with that.
Therefore, God is not saying anything knew about His redemptive work that has been completed in His Son. But He continues to reveal, speak, unveil, communicate to us for the actual and practical outworking of His redemptive work.
I hope that makes sense.
Scott,
I think we are mostly in agreement, except for the idea that intuitions or thoughts that pop in one’s head are God speaking. Acts 21:4 seems to be saying that these were prophets, i.e., those who receive audible words in visions. What they seem to receive is made clear by the text’s recording of Agabus’s prophecy, i.e., that the Spirit is actually saying to them that Paul will be imprisoned in Jerusalem. They seem to interpret that as a warning not to go (notice that nothing is said in the prophecy in terms of a command for Paul not to go, only that he will be bound once he does). Paul knows that he is to go there anyway. So their interpretation of the revelation is off, but the revelation is given in audible language.
Hodge –
Wow, we are coming to some sort of agreement! 😉
Again, I am not talking about intuition. As I said, having this conversation over the internet is hard, for defining words is not easily typed out. Body language, facial expressions and voice inflection could help.
But, please don’t anyone roll their eyes at these expressions, as I am only trying to say what it has been like for me and others. What I am talking about is as if God ‘drops’ something into your mind/spirit. Almost like a small download of a revelation. Even, at times, it could be a strong sense which you begin to pray and ask God for clarity.
A friend of mine was praying for a lady that had wanted to be healed. God told him (in no vision, but in his mind/spirit) to ask the lady about her mother, that this was the real problem. When he did, the lady burst out with an angry reply, ‘Don’t talk about THAT woman.’ And there, through the word of knowledge, God unveiled something that needed to be healed…
In John 14:26, you say that you believe Jesus is talking directly with the Apostles. I disagree. Just before he says that, he says things like, “Anyone who loves he….” or “Anyone who does not love me…” making it seem as though the audience he is talking to is not closed off to the apostles. I believe his audience is mainly the apostles, but to limit it to just them is a gross understatement.
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Growing up fundamentalist/evangelical, I was told that as a born-again Christian God would “speak to me”, “move me”, and “lead me” so that I would know and could follow his will. I listened to others talk about how God spoke to them, moved them, and led them to do this and to do that…but He never did the same for me. I finally came to the conclusion that there must be something wrong with me because God had decided he didn’t want to talk to me. So I left the Church.
Many years later I became an orthodox Lutheran and was told that God doesn’t work like that. The evangelicals are wrong. The voice they are listening to is their own. According to “true” Christianity, God speaks to Christians in only one manner: through his Word, the Bible.
That gave me a lot of peace…until I found out that the “Word” is full of discrepancies, errors, and scribe alterations.
I was very sad (and angry) to find out—it is ALL nonsense.
So what about my problem of not hearing the “voice” that other evangelicals were hearing speak, move, and lead them? After deconverting completely from Christianity, I came to realize that it was THEM, not me, that had the problem. They were hearing voices. I was the sane one…who did not.
In truth Cessionists think by avoiding The Gifts of the Spirit…they’ll avoid hearing…”Depart from me I never knew you”..sadly the opposite is true…Those who do not have God’s Commandments written in their Hearts..who honor God with their mouths yet whose hearts are far from Him…they’re the ones who will hear those dreaded words regardless if the are Continuationists or Cessionists!…We are to love God with all we have and are and our brothers and sisters as ourselves..God is the same yesterday..today and forever and He’s still just as powerful…Just as Jesus and The Father are one so Is Jesus and The Holy Spirit…He never left…it’s just your to cowardly to open up your eyes to see…the Day will come when ALL EYES WILL BE OPEN AND SEE HIM…and SOME WILL BE SHUT FOREVER!…There is nothing worse than a CHRISTIAN ATHEIST WHO CLOSES BOTH THEIR EYES AND THEIR HEART TO THE TRUTH!