C Michael Patton
C. Michael Patton is the primary contributor to the Parchment and Pen/Credo Blog. He has been in ministry for nearly twenty years as a pastor, author, speaker, and blogger.
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Th.M. Dallas Theological Seminary (2001), president of Credo House Ministries and Credo Courses, author of Now that I'm a Christian (Crossway, 2014) Increase My Faith (Credo House, 2011), and The Theology Program (Reclaiming the Mind Ministries, 2001-2006), host of Theology Unplugged, and primary blogger here at Parchment and Pen. But, most importantly, husband to a beautiful wife and father to four awesome children. Michael is available for speaking engagements.
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49 replies to "Atheism Poster"
Are we staying up late again, Michael? 😉
Is that poster from Mel Gibson’s “Passion” movie? It certainly is a difficult image to look at first thing in the morning or any time, really. I didn’t like the movie. I know the crucifiction was brutal, but the flogging was just too much for cinematic viewing. Anyway, I realize this could get everyone way off topic, so…
I can see from the atheist point of view how the whole Christian thing just sounds too…weird. But the atheist surely should take some time to think about your points. Very creative, as usual, Michael. I saw on another website that you gave us the link to where someone was challenging you to answer something and they called you “brilliant.” I would agree!
Joanie D.
[…] Michael Patton makes an atheism poster. Posted by: Michael Spencer @ 7:37 am | Trackback | Permalink […]
Joanie, thanks so much!
I love it, Michael. Both of them are a riot.
Michael, can we make T-Shirts and posters?! That’s “brilliant”! 🙂
Seriously, now, repeat after me: T-Shirts and posters…might not be for Mardel or Family Christian, but they’d sell!!! 😉
-b
[…] Patton over at the Parchment & Pen responds to this Atheism […]
Great! hook me up with the t-shirts whenever they’re made
I just really hate to read stuff like this. I am not saying you should not have your own opinion… but the world is not a big opinion like some would like to think. I guess my question to you, seriously, is simply… tell me your belief on how the world was created and how you were born into it. Not trying to sound pushy or anything, I’m really trying to see your point of view. Some will not catch the spirit behind the words…. and its not something to be forced upon someone, either you believe or you don’t. I just am curious as to why you don’t. And another question… have you ever believed? Thanks for taking time out, god bless you!
-McGregor, Tx
Love for Christ, I am sorry, but if you are talking to me, I really don’t understand. If I get your question right, you are asking for my entire Christian worldview?
Not really your “Christian” worldview… like I said I’m not trying to push anything on you, I am just wondering your view on how the whole word called “life” got started. I know not everyone will have a love for Christ, its biblical; but I’m just curious like I said, what is your view on the whole issue of “life”…where it started and came from. 🙂 Thanks.
I am sorry. I still don’t understand. I am tempted to give the really simple answer. God created us out of nothing. That is how it all got started. God created life and life began.
I know I am missing something. Forgive my ignorance.
Well actually God created man (humans) out of dust and the woman out of Adams rib. But that is irrelivant to what we are talking about. 🙂
You are not ignorant, ha… I’m probably not making myself clear. From the looks of this site, it seems that you do not believe in God. So I guess first question is first…
Question: Do you believe in God?
Guess we can conversate from here! 🙂
p.s. I would like to introduce myself… Lets just call me, Lil ol McGregor, Tx girl. 🙂 Pleased to meet you.
God bless you.
TX girl,
Thanks for the comments. I do believe in God. This is an evangelical Christian site.
Well as I’m reading some of your blogs I am starting to get that… but the whole Atheism posters are throwing me off. 🙁 Anhow… well, then I am very honored to of found just another site that is getting the word of God spread throughout the world! Please forgive me for thinking otherwise. 0:-)
So what is up with the posters??
Glad you found us!
The poster meant to belittle belief in Christ was found at an atheism site. The purpose was to show how irrational it is to believe in Christ.
The second poster is my response to the first show how irrational it is to believe in atheism.
Hope that clarifies things!
way to handle this maturely (sarcasm). do you really think you’re doing good by dropping to their level?
oh deary me ..
if you will accept my opinion as an atheist, i would like to say that this (a joke as i see it) is taken literally by many a christians and other religious types and the misinformation about atheism (as with religion i understand) is widespread and im all about dispelling myths so its all fun and games to exchange banter regarding faith, beleif and truth but please dont intentionally set out on rampages to disprove or cast doubt upon something you don’t know enough about.
Are you sure you know enough about the person you are talking to to make such a statement? 🙂
Do you know what you’re saying?? Have you ever read the bible????
Scientist that have been studying for a long time are coming to believe that Christianity IS true! I am a Christian and it says in the bible that you should force people to believe it so you may have your own opinion but so do I. I also know for sure that it is true. They even found remands of the cross that Jesus (who you call a zombie) died on for the bad things that we have done. He is the creator of the whole world and everything in it. And if you don’t believe me, do some research and you will find that you should of understood more about the topic before putting something out online.
Fascinating stuff.. Amongst the thousands upon thousands of people crucified by the Romans there, apparently, was a guy named Yeshua (Jesus) which was a pretty common name. It does not go beyond that, there is nothing that indicates, scientifically, that this Yeshua was a son of any god, there being a god, that he did any miracles, what so ever.. so basically you have a guy being crucified which was common in those days.. If that is enough for you believe in your religion than you have a very low level standards when it comes to evidence.. Would you like to buy some magic beans?
you may not of meant it but I’m just saying:)…
So what do you belive?
im assuming that was directed at me ..
not to sound arrogant or rude, but would i be right in assuming you are a high school student, most probably at a faith based school in the states somewhere .. your spelling, grammar and religious conviction have led me to this conclusion.
what i believe you ask ..
well, where shall i start
i do not beleive in anything supernatural, spiritual or metaphysical, i have strong reason to side with the theory of evolution, as written by charles darwin, over that of creation and the bible.
i see the bible as a completely man made compilation of fables written to instil fear and control the population of the middle east at the time of its writing.
i am sure there are many scientists convinced the bible is the truth, that doesnt mean it is true. many facets of the bible cannot be proven, it need not go any further. science can be rewritten if it is wrong, because it is based on ongoing studies and what is beleived to be the best knowledge available to us.
back to what you were saying, the cross jesus died on, how do they know it is the exact one? im sure there are many crosses, what proof have they?
you know for sure that it is true, somewhere along the line you must trust the information given by a secondary source, therefore you cannot know with 100% certainty. just like i know very little with absolute certainty, but i choose to believe certain things because there is more evidence for it.
aslo, thank you for your assumption that i know very little about any of this, but i am going to have to make a brash statement in suggesting that i have done far more research from both sides than you have. i went to faith based schools all my life and am very aware of the christian and catholis versions, i then did plenty of research on atheism before accepting it to be the correct term to best capture my nonbeleif in a god or gods.
do you not beleive god gave us free will? with that free will should we not be able to beleive what we want, without your interfering? is that not gods job to interfere (with his own plan), unless of course you beleive yourself to be a tool of god, in which case i would beleive you to simply be a tool.
Perhaps the over confident DISGRUNTLED ATHIEST should try reading the scriptures in their entirety before believing such conclusive opinions from the non-believers. I grew up in a religious schooling system as well and it did not bring much conviction to my christian life. I do not believe by saying what you have said can conclusively exclude creation and God as truth.
disgruntled atheist wins
over 9000 to nil
No offense ‘Jesus died for us’, i appreciate the spirit in which you post, and you heart and intention, but i would have to agree with disgruntled athiest’s profile of you from this display,
1st
know what YOU are talking about thru and thru before you open your mouth in trying to present an arguement/rebuttal
(unless it is a discussion thread intended for people to learn more, which this is not)
2nd
when you DO know what your talking about, get the facts right…
for example, it DOES NOT say that we as christians/believers/term describing belief in Jesus etc, should FORCE others to believe it
2a
perhaps you were searching for the right meaning but used the wrong words/terms in this context
2b
regardless, it does say (what i hope you meant) is that we should reveal the light of Christ to those who live in darkness, ie teach them about and discuss with them why we should believe in him, and the reason to in the first place, and allowing God to work in them and bring them to him
2c
FORCING them was the mistake the church as an institution has made in its history, in many ways, not going to go into that, this is possibly a good starting point for your own research
3rd
read your post before posting it, dont ever leave yourself open for possible hypocrisy ie “…do some research and you will find that you should of understood more about the topic before putting something out online.” The church doesnt need any more hypocrisy
I mean not to poke holes at you, but to help in your understanding of what you believe and why, please take this on board, your comments are welcome 🙂
Now, to ‘disgruntled athiest’s’ last point,
before making the assumption that God has given us free will, question it in itself,
See point 2B 🙂
Cheers guys, keep at it
after re reading i feel i came on a little strong.
“DOWN WITH DARWIN” i dont beleive anything i say can conclusively exclude creation and god as the answer, i would never afford myself such a claim. it is merely my opinion that god does not exist, and all people are entitled their own opinion. i have read many scriptures, and it is true i have not read all of them. it is easy to read the bible and take it for face value without reading into it and taking from it the story it was meant to tell.
that is what this is all about, misunderstandings .. there are atheists who have taken christianity for its face value and ridiculed it, and then c michael patton here has responded with a satirical view of the intial ridicule.
i think one of the biggest misunderstandings is that atheism is some kind of cult beleif, which it blatantly is not. i am an atheist, and call myself so simply because i have no beleif in a higher power or any supernatural beings. theism is the beleif in a supernatural god or gods and atheism is the opposite, a lack of beleif.
that is all i really wanted to say coming into this ..
since i am here, on an evangelical site, i might ask a few questions.
and i open the floor to anyone here ..
what do you make of dinosaurs? do you beleive they never roamed the earth? or that they lived among humans and yet they all died out and we survived? or something completely different?
also, i have never understood your views on miscarraiges, the ‘unborn child’ has not yet had a chance to sin, surely original sin alone is not a worthy cause for its life to end?
and lastly, do you live in fear that you might find that you are not worthy of the kingdom of heaven and that you will burn in hell for eternity?
I think the reason I dont believe in god is because I only went to church for two years and I’ve only read the first two chapters in the old testament, a few months ago when I already thought the bible was fiction.
My thinking was, why was god(christian) real when all of those others gods were fake? It just never made sense to me.
I’m all for people believing in what they want. I just wish we would stop judging other groups on what the extreme members do. I believe most chritians are good moral people, like my friends, and I think religion really does help people. But when you have that whole preist scandal thing and people saying women are evil just because, then it kinda sours the whole thing for everyone. And then the same for atheists.
Seattle – why indeed. Why did Christianity impose itself over virtually all other religions? Some of which pre-dated Christianity itself and from which the Church took deities, beliefs and symbolic dates and moulded, reworded and overtook for their own purposes.
I stopped believing not because I had never read the bible, or only gone to church twice. I was actually a child with faith.
My most important relative is a devout, and more importantly practicing Catholic. Yet she respects me with the same courtesy that I give her.
I do not care if people are Christian, (or any of its many derivatives), Budhist, Muslim…
I only expect that my views be respected, just as I respect people of faith.
I was taught an old saying from my culture, at a very young age:
”Those who expect respect, must first give it.”
look at us, and when i say us i mean all the human population, animals with our complex brains or whatever, trying to figure out why we’re here, to me this is just idk maybe an unnessary debate, i dont mean to offend people who spend thier lives doing research or people who dedicate their life to god, but look at what has come of it. endless debates, brutal wars, just chaos and anything but peace among us. what if one day u find the answer, and their is no god what now? all those deaths in vain, and what if their is a god? idk… im just saying we should spend our lives loving ourselves and our families, live our lives being happy and not stressing ourselves on stuff we shouldnt stress ourselves with.
Disgruntled Atheist,
You write:
How do you reconcile your atheism with human free will?
Disgruntled Atheist,
Your three questions are very similar to the ones I had when I was deciding which way to turn and heading towards the unbelief side, as you described. Funny thing was I found the answers and they led me to a strong belief in God and Christ and the bible. For me I got to a point where I really wanted answers and let go of the things I had been taught and tried the best I could to look for truth without bias. I began to informally study, as much as I could, all sides of the equations. Religion, science, theology, philosophy, etc and when I lined them up without as much of my own opinion as I could shake being involved, God won.
The reality is there are answers that line up very clearly and very well with the biblical account of our history, including dinosaurs. It talks about those guys a couple of times. The miscarriage thing, if I’m correct is a catholic belief, not necessarily a bible thing and worrying about going to hell because you are not worthy is not biblical. Jesus taught that none of us are worthy but that belief in him is the way to heaven. I personally believe in Him and live my life accordingly without fear of not measuring up. He knows I never will and He’s good with it, but because I am thankful for His love for me I try to my best to serve His purpose.
The choice is yours, free will. But make sure you are making the choice for yourself. Not because you were disappointed in people who presented God incorrectly to you and not because some flawed human (darwin), who himself gave his studies an out cause he knew he could be wrong, and then more flawed humans ran with his idea and now shove a theory done our throats like it is fact (which noone can claim darwinism as absolute fact). Make your choice on unbiased balanced information or make the choice to leave your options open for the time being.
I absolutely can say I know without a doubt that God is real and Jesus is the way because of the evidence and information available to us. and I am thankful for that. Keep asking the questions and search for true answers, this is too important to walk away from lightly.
It’s too bad that many of the people responding to your post miss the point of your post. Also, I find it ironic that an atheist (or whomever) can post a photo with a demeaning, uneducated, and crude summation of Christianity and be applauded. However, when a Christian returns with a caption that disagrees with an artheistic worldview, it is considered rude, unthoughtful, ignorant and so
forth. Perhaps the creator of the Christianity poster thinks that Christians who viewed the poster would sit back and passively accept such inaccuracies about their historic faith. heaven forbid a Christian should use satire or irony in their blogs or responses to criticisms against their faith….
ckd,
u stated; The reality is there are answers that line up very clearly and very well with the biblical account of our history: yet i see none of these “answers” in what u posted, so please enlighten me on these facts.
Also, u stated: Jesus taught that none of us are worthy but that belief in him is the way to heaven. I personally believe in Him and live my life accordingly without fear of not measuring up.: what i take from that statement is that u believe in “him” because it is “the way to heaven” not because of hard evidence. fact (hard evidence) is much different than fear (i want to go to heaven) my friend.
Eric f.: The thing about the Christianity poster is that everything on it is true. The flowery language is taken away, but the essence of Christianity really *is* the belief in a ‘cosmic Jewish zombie’, etc. The things on C Michael Patton’s poster are actually untrue, particularly the bits about “a reasonless universe without order”, which is basically the anti-thesis of atheism, and “the ultimate emotional articulation of self-centeredness”, which is actually one of the major ideas of *religion*. I mean, athiests don’t believe in a universe created solely for their benefit. And in any case, most of the people posting here are in favour of the poster. (If they’re actually addressing it, that is.)
Also, props to Disgruntled Atheist for taking on all of these evangelicals. Rock on.
It saddens me that people today don’t know what symbolic literature is. Boo to atheism.
IPU_bbhhh,
The amount of truth contained in the second poster reflects the amount of truth contained in the first poster. That’s the whole point. That you at once completely missed the point and think everything on the first poster is true both are very, very revealing.
Ryft,
“The amount of truth contained in the second poster reflects the amount of truth contained in the first poster.”
I disagree. The first poster caricatures actual Christian doctrines and biblical assertions ; the second poster, although it’s clever, doesn’t have any ‘doctrines’ of atheism to caricature, and isn’t analogous. Saying Christ is a zombie (a being that was once dead and now ‘lives’ again) is far more accurate than that atheism’s ‘purpose is to evidence that there is no purpose’, which doesn’t necessarily or logically follow from atheism’s definition.
wow after reading all of these blogs I am in tears on the inside
All I have to say is where are we going as a nation of people and what is going to happen to the next generation.
Disgruntled Atheist wrote:
“What do you make of dinosaurs? Do you believe they never roamed the earth? Or that they lived among humans and yet they all died out and we survived? “
It would depend on if you want an answer from the OEC or YEC view. I hold to the OEC view (4.5-Billion years old), so I would believe that dinosaurs roamed the earth, but most likely without humans.
Disgruntled Atheist wrote:
“Also, I have never understood your views on miscarriages, the ‘unborn child’ has not yet had a chance to sin, and surely original sin alone is not a worthy cause for its life to end?”
Dr. Ronald Nash whom is believes in the reformed view–wrote a book on a similar subject titled, When a Baby Dies. Dr. Nash uses the following to pose his case:
[Quote]
Infants are declared not to know good from evil (Deut. 1:39) and to be innocent, not understanding what is needed to perform good or evil. (This also applies to the mentally impaired.)
Judgment is made based on sins and whether what we do is “good or bad” (2 Cor. 5:10). Deeds are recorded of “good and bad” in the Book of Life; but where this is concerned, an infant leaves a blank page.
Scripture is clear that the unborn (Jer. 1:5, Luke 1:15) and little children (Matt. 19:13-15) can be regenerate and have a “special relationship” [64] with God.
[/Quote]
Book Review Source:
http://www.tektonics.org/books/alldaybooks.html
Disgruntled Atheist wrote:
“And lastly, do you live in fear that you might find that you are not worthy of the kingdom of heaven and that you will burn in hell for eternity?”
No I do not live in fear, but rest in Christ.
Interesting point at the end: http://www.NeedGod.com
I love your poster!
Good job.
I AM SO TIRED OF YOU DAMN CHRISTIANS!
I am normally a calm person. I try my best not to judge people of other religions just because I am an atheist person. I have friends of all kind of beliefs. BUT I AM GETTING SICK OF IT! People constantly tell me I am a bad person. I should fear god. I am going to go to hell. I should believe in god.
I am tired of so many damn people trying to convert me into their freaking religion. I have my own beliefs for my own reasons. I am tired of being told what I should believe.
All I ask for is respect. I respect others of different beliefs as me, so all is ask for is respect in return.
I don’t take my beliefs and shove them down your throat so I ask that you don’t do that to me.
No one will change my mind. (I don’t believe in a god) so just stop with trying to already! I understand your beliefs but they aren’t mine, so just stop trying to make them mine. Stop insulting me just because I don’t believe in a god.
I am not a bad person just because I don’t believe. I am still human.
Michael, Being anti-atheistic does not prove Christianity nor answer the questions raised by the first poster. Rather, you have to try and make the points in the anti-Christian poster seem utterly reasonable and unquestionable, which you cannot do. At most an honest rational human being might wind up an agnostic or mystic. There could be some form of distributed intelligence out there, but classical theism and biblical theism besides? And if the latter, do you really believe the evidence is so strong that everyone who believes otherwise MUST be damned eternally for not coming to the same conclusion? Our lives are short, our access to knowledge limited.
I feel obligated to tell you that using big words doesn’t make you sound smarter. That atheism one is LOADED with horrible sentence structure. Also, why do you christians hate atheists so much? I just want to know. But I bet you can’t answer that.
As hard as this will be for many religious people to come to terms with, we are ALL atheists to a degree. As someone had previously posted, we all dismiss the other gods regardless of our religion, the only difference is that people that identify as Atheists take it one god further.
Personally, I grew up as a VERY devout catholic, but then reached a point in my life where the evidence just did not support my beliefs anymore. This was something that was hard to accept, but nevertheless something that I had to accept to be honest with myself. It was hard to come to terms that when my family passes away I will never see them again. More than anything, I would love to believe that there is an afterlife where we all get to see our loved ones again, but that’s just not something that is feasible.
To Sarah: Atheists tend to use larger words because we’re…I don’t want to say we have achieved a higher level of education, but that seems to be the reason. We’re willing to expand our knowledge and not dismiss scientific evidence because it might interfere with our beliefs. As for your second question, christians tend to dislike anyone or anything that threatens their belief system. In all fairness, some Atheists do dislike christians as well because, as someone had mentioned above, the majority of them try to push their religious beliefs down everyone’s throat.
The truest quote that has ever been uttered is ” the most dangerous people in the world are those who believe they are doing god’s work”! That is not to target the christian religion entirely, but those of any religion.
Atheism is the lack of a belief in any gods. Not every one believes what the atheism poster says. Also, by definition, all newborns are atheists(they don’t have a belief in any gods), so your attributing that to them? Since atheism is the absense of something, it has no set beliefs, thus the poster doesn’t work. It could vary from atheist to atheist. Christianity, meanwhile, has all members believing in this, so the top one does work for them. Also, any religion without gods(such as Bhuddism) is atheistic, but they have beliefs that differ from the second.
Without tooting my own horn too much, I’d like to make what will probably be the most important point to grace this blog. Each and every one of us posting here are alike in at least a thousand more ways than we are different, regardless of which faith we choose. As contradictory as it may sound, an individulal’s life philosophy makes up only a small portion of that individual. If were defined by the philosophy we choose, we wouldn’t see nearly as much variation between people of the same faith. We’re all human; we all sweat, bleed and love in essentially the same way.
I guess maybe I’m a little off topic but I think it’s really important that we realize that we’re not really that different and that there’s probably no single truth so while I encourage debate, don’t let it mislead you into thinking you’re conversing with someone who doesn’t love their kids just as feircely as you do, or who wouldn’t call 911 if they saw you get hit by a car.