(Lisa Robinson)
I recently just ended a 5 month dating relationship. I really had high hopes for this one, especially considering that he is a great guy and we still remain friends. In fact, as foundational differences began rising to the surface, the one thing I kept going back to was that he was a good man. And I think this resonates with so many ladies, doesn’t it? For I have heard this many times. We want a good man.
When you think about what is meant by this statement, it is really about how a man treats a woman and what he brings to the table. He is considered good because of qualities he possesses such as kindness, respect, generosity, and appreciation. He might be considered good if he is family-oriented and has the capacity to provide for a future family because he is responsible and has decent employment.
But in thinking about what is and should be at the core of a Christian centered relationship particularly focused on marriage possibility, it strikes me that since Christianity is grounded in the gospel, so too should the parties involved be gospel-centered people. So I’ve concluded that I do not want a good man but rather a gospel-centered man. The gospel-centered man will of course exhibit qualities of goodness, so he will not be a bad man. But the core of who he is centered in who God is and what he has provided. Also, this is no reflection on the gentleman, so don’t go there.
The gospel-centered man will recognize that he is a sinner, that he was born an enemy to God. He will understand that it is not good behavior that warrants acceptance from God, but belief in His Son. He will know that any attribute of goodness he possesses has been received by the Father because of this belief, that being made in the image of God and recognizing the truth of who He is provides this reflection on him.
The gospel-centered man will recognize that the ideal world ended in Genesis 3 and therefore will not insist for an ideal model. He will be in touch with his own brokenness and propensity towards selfishness and realize that I can go there too. He will recognize that he does not meet a model of perfection and will not insist on perfection from me. Instead he will insist that we go to the one who is perfect, who met the perfect expectations of the Father and gave His life so we might live.
The gospel-centered man will understand grace, the undeserved gift of God received without human merit. He will not set it aside as a one time transaction but have it as the fabric of his life, always mindful of the magnificent gift he has received. That in turn will foster forgiveness when relational transgressions occur and refusal to harbor on past faults or indiscretions. It will motivate gratitude and worship towards God.
The gospel-centered man will engage in a continual pursuit of knowing God. That means learning and growing, seeking for truth in a spirit of humility and openness. Since he is in tune with his own selfish and self-centered tendencies, he will be motivated to learn as objectively as possible knowing that his own fallibility will cause him to get stuff wrong. He therefore will value input from the community of faith, including from me.
The gospel-centered man will take Christian living serious, not to reflect his own significance or aptitude for good behavior, but as representative of the enablement of the Spirit’s work in him. He therefore, will not be proud or arrogant concerning his own accomplishments.
The gospel-centered man’s orientation towards marriage will cause him to see the significance of gospel-centered living in marriage. He will take Ephesians 5:24-33 serious and prepare himself to love a future wife sacrificially, as Christ loved His church. He knows that it is only his being a recipient of God’s love and empowerment by the Holy Spirit that he is able to do so.
The gospel-centered man will understand hope that is in the resurrection and the eschatalogical plan of God. He will realize that this is not all there is, that failure and brokenness will persist until Jesus comes back and sets everything right. Therefore he will make every effort to not deflect the pains of this life onto the relationship but prayerfully join together to direct attention towards where our hope should rest.
So you see, the gospel-centered man stands a bit in contrast to a “good” man. Because the “good” man, even though being a Christian, will focus on his attributes, his accomplishments, his behavior and his abilities. He will therefore insist that the one he is with measure up accordingly, which most likely will result in performance anxiety and all kind of relational malfeasance. And where is the goodness in that?
So I don’t know if I will ever find a gospel-centered man that is accepting of everything I am. Nor do I expect him to meet these qualities perfectly since that would be contradictory to what I say about being a “good” man. He is flawed and fallen and so am I. So at a minimum, I can and should be a gospel-centered person myself.
52 replies to "Why I Do Not Want a “Good” Man"
Excellent. So, to add one more, a gospel centered man will not be Catholic 😉
I thought, and agreed with, everything was superb until I read the last paragraph. Why do you think you may not find a gospel-centered person that is accepting of you??
Actually, I said accepting of who I am, which is a bit different. That encompasses the totality of me including age, personality, life experiences, theological orientation, etc. That won’t be a fit for everybody.
Excellent post, mostly because I love and appreciate your transparency and because this is a good reminder.
Thoughtful post…my comment is just to say that these qualities you are looking for (and they are good!) are not perfectly found in anyone. So no man will consistently exhibit even these “Gospel” qualities of self sacrifice, forgiveness, godly humility, and dependence on God. In my experience, it is the vocation of marriage itself that cultivates these qualities in sincere people. (By no means do I intend to say that marriage is a fix-all. Just that God uses marriage to further sanctify us and our attitudes!)
Anyway, just as there is no perfectly “good” man, there is no perfect “sinner” either. There is no one who has “arrived” at being perfectly contrite and perfectly trusting in God….especially *before* marriage! (;
Thank you Irene. No, I don’t think anyone can live this out perfectly. I surely don’t. But there is the intention to do so, is all I’m getting at.
Irene
I completely agree with your comments to this post.
Just as there is no perfect Proverbs 31 woman either.
We all still carry a sin nature and will until we die. I have
been married 32 years and am still growing toward maturity in the faith. I am afraid Lisa is setting some poor man up to fail before they even start on building a permanent forgiving relationship. One of my daughters has been looking for that gospel-centered man for 10 yrs. now and may, at age 30, have found him. But she needs to be ready for him to fail many times !!
Hi Pete,
You said,
“I am afraid Lisa is setting some poor man up to fail before they even start on building a permanent forgiving relationship.”
The premise of what I’m writing is that we are all flawed and fallen. No one is going to get everything right and there will be relational transgressions. So I’m not understanding how one would be set up to fail when that is a given, especially when we realize that failure will occur.
I edited the last paragraph so hopefully it is clearer that I am in no ways looking for perfection, since some are reading that into what I wrote. This is the beauty of the gospel, that good news that wretched people receive grace and forgiveness despite their many flaws.
Oh man, I think I had more hope of being the “good man” than this.
You defined the good man as kind and the gospel man as sacrificial. I think you’ve just dressed up the good man in more pious language.
Great post Lisa and reminds how fortunate I am to have a Gospel centered wife for over 25 years.
I hope and pray that you find such a person, Lisa.
I know the Lord you bring someone like that into your life.
I wasn’t sure how to respond – it seems that you *do* want a good man, but good is defined with a couple of additional qualities – humble, God-fearing, and unselfish.
You phrased it as wanting “gospel-centered *rather than* good man,” but I think in the end you want a “good, gospel-centered man.” Or am I missing something.
Sounds like the guy in your relationship that just ended was “good” even “Christian,” but not … what? (I know “gospel-centered”, but in the final analysis, who really has that nailed?) What was missing? I ask because I wonder if I have it or would be found wanting. Don’t get me wrong – I don’t mean that as either snarky or as a pick-up line :). I truly mean that as a self-analysis opportunity.
I agree with Mike O there. When do we get to the expectations on the other side where other folks think their beliefs are just a valid? Who wins? You have made this post more incumbent about what you believe generally so perhaps you could be more specific on where you disagreed.
Question: what is the distinction between a gospel centered man, and a Christian?
You say that the good man is also a Christian, but he’s different to the gospel centered man.
Are you proposing a category of men who are (a) good, (b) Christians and (c) don’t realize they are sinners, and don’t realize there was a fall in Genesis 3, and don’t understand grace.. etc etc.
Mike O asked “Am I missing something?”
Yes, and I’ll direct this to mbaker and John’s comment, and others as well. See this line
“The gospel-centered man will of course exhibit qualities of goodness, so he will not be a bad man. But the core of who he is centered in who God is and what he has provided. Also, this is no reflection on the gentleman, so don’t go there.”
So first note, that I am making general statements. This is something I frequently do, bounce ideas off of situations I experience. I am not necessarily directing it at the situation but thinking broadly.
Of course the person will be good but there will be a recognition of where that that goodness comes from. I’m making a distinction between attributes/qualities that are attractive from a behavioral standpoint and the one who trusts in Christ as their attractiveness.
I’ll admit I’m a little puzzled at the reaction from several at how gospel-centeredness is somehow creating this list of perfection qualities that sets up this unreasonable standard. When you think about the gospel, it is that we are wretches saved by grace who must lean on the one who saved us. It implies both failure on our part and need for Him. That is distinguished from being a “good” person who rests in themselves and yes, even we Christians can do this. I think we’ll get that on an individual basis. All I did was put it in a relationship context. Of course we will fail. That’s why we need a Savior.
Also note, if I am a gospel-centered person too, that means I can’t expect anything that I am not doing myself. And I don’t do it perfectly either.
“I’m a little puzzled at the reaction at how gospel-centeredness is creating perfection qualities that sets up this unreasonable standard.”
— seemingly a reasonable comment.. But…
“That is distinguished from being a “good” person who rests in themselves and yes, even we Christians can do this.”
So, what you call being “good” is actually being a bad Christian…
“Of course we will fail.”
Yup, but you want a man who doesn’t fail too much in that department. You don’t want a bad Christian (who fails too much in this area) , but rather a good one.
“I can’t expect anything I am not doing myself. And I don’t do it perfectly either.”
You’ve wondered why people are suggesting you are setting high standards. But you admit it is an area you are failing in and not reaching perfection. Obviously it is something to do with setting a standard to which one can fail then.
If the premise of your article is valid, then you are the “good” woman, lamenting…
This post is going to be required memorizaton for my daughters!
…your failure to be as good as you would like.
Maybe you are just being particular about what kind of sins you are willing to tolerate and to what extent?
Because surely, they wouldn’t even be a Christian at all if they didn’t on some level believe in grace, know they are a sinner etc. but since you’ve said the hypothetical good man is a Christian, so they must believe that. But you want them to live it out to a particular standard. If they don’t reach that standard, they are in trouble.
“But you admit it is an area you are failing in and not reaching perfection. Obviously it is something to do with setting a standard to which one can fail then.”
Sigh. I’ll try one more time. Nobody is perfect but God. No one reaches perfection. The best we can do is turn to Him and let our lives be marked by that as we progress towards maturity, trusting in Christ rather than ourselves. It is a heart orientation towards Him.
“Maybe you are just being particular about what kind of sins you are willing to tolerate and to what extent?”
No, because there is grace and mercy and this statement completely misses the point.
Here’s the thing I don’t get – what was the guy missing that caused him to cut him loose? He was good, and he was a Christian, but he wasn’t … what? You say no one is perfect, yet you cut this guy loose. What behavior or quality was missing? Was it a self-sufficiency thing rather than Christ-sufficiency?
Again, I don’t mean that in a judging or snarky way. I don’t get what caused the relationship to end if he was good and Christian and didn’t have to be perfect.
Do you have grace and mercy towards the man who doesn’t reach perfection in recognizing his own sinfulness? In relying on God? In being in touch with his own brokenness? In his humility? Etc etc etc from your laundry list?
If the answer is YES, why did you just beat up on the “good” Christian man, for not being good enough for you? Where is your grace for him?
If the answer is NO, aren’t you being hypocritical?
Don’t mind me, but my wife of 18 years left me saying that I am not a good enough Christian for her. So it’s a topic I’ve had occasion to mull over a bit.
Yes, Grace and mercy extends to us all who are Christians but WHAT specifically did you find not find ‘gospel centered about this particular one?
Without telling us that you are saying nothing as to how we know the difference.
Mike, I hope you respect the fact that I do not wish to make the post or discussion about him and the relationship. Suffice it to say we were not on the same page to build a solid foundation. But we did and still do get along well.
Fair enough. That is a good answer.
John, I don’t think its fair nor honest to project into situations you know nothing about. Please see my previous comment to Mike. I do NOT want to make the post about this gentleman. That was not the point of me writing it. Yet you remain fixated on determining my transgressions in the matter without any knowledge of it. But please feel free to think what you wish about me and my motives. God bless.
Lisa,
Sounds like you are posting the requirements for a job interview. After all this, will you really love this guy? We all agree that the relationship has to be centered on God, but growing outward from that, where do you go? I don’t hear any passion in your description. I just hear a list of requirements he must have (granted, we all fall short), but like the other commenters alluded to, your description of the relationship you just ended sounded like you fired him.
Lisa, I never mentioned your relationship, nor did I alude to any situation, either one I do or don’t know about. I merely discussed the hypothetical “good man”, which I take it you do want to talk about, since you put him into the public forum. I also have not mentioned your transgressions, if any, nor your motives. I only discussed the premise your put forward, you are now apparently not prepared to clarify.
John,
You asked, “Where is your grace for him?”
It is implicit in my statement that I should be a gospel-centered person too. And gospel-centered people turn to Christ amidst their failures and recognition of the other’s failures. Because gospel-centered people understand they get something they don’t deserve, which provokes forgiveness when relational transgressions occur. But I believe I said that in the post. Grace covers failures. But then when I said that I don’t expect perfection, you indicated that I concede to failure. In frustration, I concede to drop it to which your retort is that I’m not prepared. Apparently, nothing I say will satisfy you or dissuade you from your opinion. So I throw in the towel.
Throw in the towel on what? You haven’t shown you’ve understood what people are saying.
Basically your position is that some Christians are not good enough Christians for you. That’s fine, we all have our standards. The problem is you don’t appear to recognize that you’ve set high standards. If you are the real gospel centered woman, go find a bad Christian man and marry him. Then you’ll exercise all the qualities you talk about in yourself. It sounds like ( it’s just an impression ) that you are setting yourself up for disappointment by aiming for a super Christian. You think you are being consessional by not wanting a “good” man, but you really want much more. To be Christian, to be kind, to be a family man, to be generous, this is not enough.
You probably won’t even know when you find someone reaching the standards. The “good” man is kind, the gospel man is sacrificial. Good luck differentiating the two. I doubt you’ll know the difference ( if there is one).
The gospel-centered man will recognize that he is a sinner, that he was born an enemy to God. He will understand that it is not good behavior that warrants acceptance from God, but belief in His Son. He will know that any attribute of goodness he possesses has been received by the Father because of this belief, that being made in the image of God and recognizing the truth of who He is provides this reflection on him.
Lisa, I don’t think you probably intended this, but it seems to me that paragraph can give the impression that someone that isn’t a Christian can have no attributes of goodness at all. (That there can be no attribute of kindness, honesty, or anything else thought of as good, unless a person has faith in God.) I have known many a non Christian that has exhibited many a good thing in their life. Could you clarify what you are saying here a bit?
“Basically your position is that some Christians are not good enough Christians for you”
No, I would not put it this way. It is more about having a shared core value. I have a commitment in my own life to gospel-centeredness. And to be clear, that is not a pursuit of moral perfection but a pursuit of Christ in recognition that I am a sinner saved by grace and my life is His. I have received much grace and mercy for a multiplicity of transgressions and have no interest in holding anyone up to unreasonable standards. Everything I listed above is the core of who I am. The one for whom gospel-centeredness is offensive or unreasonable would not be a good fit and that would produce a shaky foundation. Marriage is hard enough when people have similar commitments to core values. The one for whom being a good person is their core value should look for qualities in a mate likewise. I am not interested in being a good person but a gospel-centered person.
I should also mention that I have been in an unequally yoked marriage (widowed since 2004). It drove me to conclude how vital shared core values are. If I didn’t see that this was possible in many marriages I have encountered, then maybe I’d question if it was unreasonable. But I’ve seen too many gospel-centered marriages to know better – two imperfect people committed to a perfect Savior.
Lisa
You have explained your position well. Thank you for getting personal, which is so hard in this kind of public square. It does explain where you are coming from.
We, in this blogpost, are setting up human standards,not the way God sees it. If we are not believers, we cannot do anything good in God’s eyes. “All our righteousness is as filthy rags.” Hopefully, you have learned from this post that men are very sensitive towards this issue. My wife of 32 yrs. can still hit my hottest button by saying, “That wasn’t very Christian of you” or even worse, “and you call yourself a Christian”! I react mostly because she is right, but also that she has judged me according to her standards and knows full well that I can’t measure up!
Thank you for your courage to lay this out.
Cheryl, in response to your statement here
“I don’t think you probably intended this, but it seems to me that paragraph can give the impression that someone that isn’t a Christian can have no attributes of goodness at all.”
Oh no, I don’t want to give that impression at all. In fact, I’ve met unbelievers who seem “gooder” than some Christians (nicer, kinder and gentler too) All humanity is made in the image of God so of course there will be goodness. But, it is a matter of where their trust is placed – in their goodness/themselves or in Christ. That is really what I’m getting at.
Thanks Pete. I want to bounce off something you said, which I believe is crucial to understanding the distinctions that I’m trying to make between a good person and a gospel-centered person. You said,
“I react mostly because she is right, but also that she has judged me according to her standards and knows full well that I can’t measure up!”
See the good person will set the standard according to a list of attributes in which people (including themselves) must measure up. In a relationship, that becomes this kind of check list of dos and don’ts. But the gospel-centered person understands that Christ is the standard and they don’t measure up. So there is a need to turn to Him. In this way, I see what Irene is saying about the marriage partners sanctifying each other in their imperfection as they point each other to Christ.
Also, I appreciate your admonishment about the sensitivity of men regarding this issue. Thank you for that reminder and I apologize if I have come off crass or insensitive.
Thanks, Lisa. I think you nailed it here …
“I should also mention that I have been in an unequally yoked marriage (widowed since 2004). It drove me to conclude how vital SHARED CORE VALUES are.”
On a lighter note, there is a pic floating around Face Book, etc. of a man reading a book on understanding women, and the book is about as thick as he is tall. 🙂 Men need a “how to” manual and this post doesn’t fit that paradigm.
Suffice it to say, stay gospel-centered yourself, and the right man will find his way to you … one who gets what you’re saying and who shares your core values. Or not. Either way, that’s OK because you don’t strike me as a man-centered woman, rather a Christ-centered one.
Hi Stg,
Seeing this as a list of requirements for a job interview really misses the point. I would ask that you go back to my previous few comments (particularly #33 and #36) where I provide some clarification. Also, I had clearly stated that what I was writing was no reflection on the gentleman and this bears repeating. So it is unfair to project anything into that situation.
Mike, I have seen that ah um, *cough* understanding women manual too many times to count 😀 I actually thought it was pretty funny.
Thanks for your clarification, Lisa. As I said, I didn’t think that was really what you meant. Those “gooder” non Christians would kind of put the lie to any of that kind of thinking, wouldn’t they?
Lisa
Again we need to be very careful calling anyone good, especially a non-believer. Remember God requires “holy”
(1 Peter 1:13-1) which, only by the power of the Spirit can we ever make it, and non-believers, without the Spirit can never please God. Any standard of goodness created by man is just that. In fact, neo-Atheists would have us believe that
natural man can create a mutually agreed upon moral, (good) code! NO! Every ones concept of good is going to be different, personally and culturally. I am leading a group of men through a study of JC Ryle’s book, “Holiness” and Jerry Bridges, “Pursuit of Holiness”. WHEW! Its going to be a long battle up until we go home!
Hey, Lisa! I know what the passions of your heart are and I see you wanting to share life with someone who shares valuable passions. That is how I read this post. I think it’s great that you are holding out to find a man who has these same deep desires. This is core-central to who you are. If you are with a ‘good’ man….or perhaps you could have used the word ‘nice’ he might not necessarily be driven and motivated by the gospel. That’s not the right man for you.
I get what you are saying here, and I think you are honoring God by waiting for such an individual. Hold to it, girl!
Somehow i am still nagged by this post. Why bring out that in in the first place if wasn’t about this ‘gentleman’, as you call him. when actually it was because he somehow didn’t live up to your personal expectations?
Mbaker,
I’m confused by why this has to be an issue. It is not the point of the post. This is my writing style. As I mentioned in a previous comment, I frequently bounce things off of real life experiences and may start off talking about a real life event that spawns some thinking. Please note the transition from paragraph one to paragraph two where I begin speaking in generalities. I sincerely wish that the post could be read for how I intended it and not the insistence on creating the linkage when that was not even the point. The point was to reflect on what a gospel-centered person looked like not to do a tell-all on why a relationship ended. That is all.
Also, because I am not perfect either and cannot possibly satisfy everyone’s preference for how something should be addressed 🙂
Lisa,
Then why bring up the relationship at all? This would have been a much more effective post if you had left this subjective area out of it, and just objectively presented the specific differences in the gospel drive man and the good man.
Hope you will do that.
mbaker, for you to say ‘didn’t live up to your expectations’ is a judgmental way of putting things. Perhaps he doesn’t share her passions in the realm of theology and the gospel as she’d initially thought he did. Maybe that caused her to reflect upon what she really hopes to find in the man she marries. This seems like wise thinking to me. So some of this thinking is born out of her recent experiences…..so what! Personally it seems to me that Lisa has her priorities in order and want to meet someone who will share life with her on a spiritual level—with more of a meeting of the minds. I don’t think that Lisa is saying that the man she just broke up with is none of those things she listed as desirable. She transitioned into her own personal reflections about what’s really important to her as she looks into the future. Don’t we tend to recalibrate when such life-changing events take place? Why be so critical of Lisa?
Thanks for that Susan. However, the discussion is getting off track so I’m going to close the comments. Thank you all for a great discussion.
I’m opening the comments back up. But I ask that you all keep the conversation away from speculation regarding the collapse of the relationship. That was not the point of the article. Thanks.
This post is great! It preaches very well to me, a single guy! I like that acceptance of our mistakes, and a hunger of the Gospel as my food, my life! I will study on this again.
Thanks, Lisa.
Sincerely,
Rob.