I am somewhat envious of people who experience God differently than I do. I hear about all kinds of experiences that are once or twice removed from me and say a silent prayer in the back of my head, “Why not me Lord?” Whether it be through worship, through quiet fellowship filled with God’s felt presence, or the dramatic conversion experiences, I don’t know what they are like except through the testimony of others.
Don’t get me wrong. I am not complaining. I am not even expressing a spiritual vitamin shortage. At least I don’t think I am. But the fact is that I have been a Christian all my life and when people tell me the dramatic stories of their subjective encounters with God, I don’t know how to relate. I just have not had them. I have never heard God’s voice, never had a dramatic life changing dream, never “felt” the presence of God in my room (even during prayer), never spoken in tongues, never gotten a “word from the Lord” (not even for this blog), and never had a sin dramatically taken from me. In fact, most of my spiritual life does not come easy. It involves wrestling with the Lord through prayer. I find it very difficult to stop sin, change bad attitudes, keep from forming bad habits, and to stop from hiding from obligations. In fact (though this may come across as blasphemous to some), the “peace that passes understanding” is something that is more often than not quit far from me. Sure, I do have peace in the ultimate things. Salvation, truth, the Lord’s love, and the truths of Scripture bring me “meta peace.” But as far as the day-to-day battle, the peace that I experience is very understandable, being absent most of the time.
I don’t like any of this stuff. I don’t like to wrestle. I don’t like that I don’t have any dramatic stories of change and deliverance. But these are the facts of my life as they stand today.
I was listening to a testimony of someone today. His life was filled from top to bottom with the presence of the Lord. Sure, mine is too. But his was one of those stories where God’s miraculous intervention, “sweet presence”, and constant deliverance from sin was always within his grasp. It was all very nice. I actually like to hear these stories so long as people don’t try to make them out to be the normative Christian experience. I get very discouraged when I feel as if people are judging others based on their own spiritual experiences.
When people experience God in such a way, though it is quit foreign to me, I don’t look upon this with skepticism. Well, at least not most of the time. In fact, I feed off their experience. I love life change testimonies. I love those who experience God in ways that I don’t. I love when people have a sixth-sense of spiritual things.
I was in conversation with a young man a few days ago who was very discouraged. His Christian life began with a dramatic sense of the presence of the Lord. He described his time with God in ways that made me salivate and celebrate at the same time. As he put it, the truths of Scripture would jump off the page. God’s direction and guidance for the details of his life were always available. “God was just there,” as he would put it. He felt his presence. Sin was easy to conquer. However, he is going through a significant time of doubt and discouragement. Why? Not because he is doubting the truths of the resurrection. Not because he is encountering objections to his faith. No intellectual reasoning behind his discouragement at all. He is discouraged because “God has disappeared.” The description of the departing of his faith is as vivid to him as the description of the coming of his faith. “I felt God leave me,” he said.
I don’t seek to legitimize this man’s (or anyone else’s) experience. That is not my purpose today. I am sure that much of what people feel is true and from the Lord. However, I am concerned when people base their faith on such things. Better, I am concerned when people suppose upon the Lord the perpetual reality of subjective encounters.
God, with regard to these type of things, does “go dark.” No, I did not way AWOL. I said “dark.”
God works with people differently. It is his right. I know, I know. Sometimes it is the individual’s personality that is at play. I know, I know. Sometimes it is medication. I know, I know, sometimes it is sin. I know, I know. Sometimes it is nothing more than a lack of sleep. But sometimes it has nothing to do with these things. It is simply that God goes dark. It is at these times that the faith of those whose spirituality has been so dependent on these things gets tested. What a hard test it is too.
Some of you know all too well how to identify with David when he says:
“My God, my God, why have You forsaken me? Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning. O my God, I cry by day, but You do not answer; And by night, but I have no rest. (Psa 22:1-2)
During this “dark days”, no matter how long they last, please take courage and bring back up the flag of hope knowing that God’s absence is only apparent. I cannot tell you how long it will last or exactly what the Lord is doing and why. Maybe he wants to strengthen another aspect of your faith. Maybe he is building a new foundation. Maybe he is helping you to identify with others. Maybe he is humbling you. Maybe he is simply testing your faith. Whatever the cause, God going dark is not the same as God going AWOL. David’s words here, while meant to bring comfort, do not express reality. In other words, this Scripture is not trying to teach that God does actually forsake people. This Psalm, like so many others, is there to bring you comfort. It is here to let you know that God does sometimes go dark in the our lives.
Don’t stop creating ladders to my faith. While often foreign to me, I love that you know the presence of the Lord differently than I do. I will have to be content to stand on your shoulders when I can’t sense God the way you do. However, when your ladder comes down and God goes dark, don’t be afraid to climb another ladder and stand on someone else’s shoulders for a while. Most of all, understand that God works with us all uniquely. There is no one all-together normative spirituality that we should expect or enforce.
39 replies to "When God Goes Dark"
If we base our walk in feelings, then it isn’t faith. Faith is trusting, even you when you don’t feel it and especially when you don’t feel it. Trusting in God and his word, that he is who he says he is in dark times when he seems to be silent, can only strengthen faith.
Perhaps there has been too much emphasis on sensationalism such that if one does not experience it, we have trouble believing that God is there and that he is at work. One thing that is guaranteed in the Christian life is that our faith will be tested. In my experience, that process involves removing what we have put our trust in. And if we are trusting in sensationalism, then….
“For we walk by faith, not by sight” (2 Corinthians 5:7)
Very true. Sometimes with people I meet it is like their faith is hinged on their feelings. I wish that I could say something that would persuade them somehow, but at times words can seem not to be of any effect on them. One thing I do try to encourage them is that this supposed time of absence should drive them to seek after God even more, and like Jacob, hang on to God and wrestle for that blessing. I try to remind them of Israel in the desert, and that God was testing them (according to Duet. 8 ) and that in those dry times we should seek God out, because Jesus gives us the water that we thirst for to not be thirsty again.
I relate to you Michael, that could have been written describing my own walk with God. I used to be upset that I never spoke in tongues or ‘felt’ the presence of God, or any of those things you wrote.
Now in my mid forties, I think very different about that. It seems that my faith could not be stronger, and I never have doubts. I even find the concept of ‘doubts’ concerning God to be absurd. It would seem to me that if I have such faith when God is so hard to see or discern being anywhere close, than my relationship with God and my overall life must be in good shape.
My life is a struggle everyday. It’s rough to get from one day to the next, and I must come to the Lord every single day for even the smallest provision.
But even that is an obvious work of God to me, to keep me going day to day on such little money I have to work with from my job which has no health insurance.
Though I admit lately I *do* get feelings that God is right next to me in another dimension.
Long time listener, first time caller.
I am actually glad to have a “dry” time at the moment. When I was in Bible school, I felt like I was in a spiritual monsoon season. Whether it was the constant calls for “radical” living or the recruiters trying to get me for their particular ministry or even the simple chapel requirement, I felt like I had enough of “God,” if that was God. However, my school did give me the tools to get through tough times. I knew the right things about God to trust in his continued involvement in my life.
I feel like I am in a desert. Because God provided me wells for dry times, the dunes do not have to be green to make me trust in God’s provision. The dry time also protects me from the mildew that might set in if I stay too long in a “wet” time.
When God shows up, people have to MOVE. Perhaps sometimes he withdraws himself so that we don’t feel like we have to keep repenting. When you turn 180 degrees, you have fully repented. Then you just…
Michael you and I have too much in common and it’s scary at times. You’re the brother from a different mother, and we struggle, wrestle, and have to leave a lot of faith or experiential issues in tension, or some unresolved. The reason I like the book of Ecclesiastes so much is because King Solomon struggled with many of these same issues, albeit in a non-technological age, yet the premise of the human condition remained the same. There is a season for everything under the sun, even when God goes dark.
I think one of the reasons for the dark times is so we will learn to trust God in all situations. I have had some pretty radical experiences, but I have also had times when I have wondered if God had forgotten all about me. I suspect that the latter have been much more valuable for building my faith then the former.
I think we exasperate each other when we assume a “one size fits all” approach to the Christian life. God does relate to each of us in different ways. We each have different gifts and somewhat different missions, or ways to approach the same mission.
I can’t say I’ve ever had God speak to me either. I know He’s there, but no favors are done for me when I read books that assume I should be having this or that experience or I’m not really a Christian.
I have to confess that I envy those who say that they have had a word from God, that have had those Moses encounters. I envy those who breathlessly report a miraculous healing or encounter with God. I ask Him “Why not me? Why have You chosen to remain so far from me?” I’m not giving up on Him, but I really wish that I could nod my head with all of the others and say “I knwo what your speaking of as i I’ve expienced Him that way too.”
If God has promised His presence to believers He certainly does not fail to keep His Word. God is always present for His children. Experiences are never taught to be sought, rather trust or faith in God’s promised. The young man described what “he” thought was happening, not what God has said “is” happening which is His abiding and permanent presence and the revelation of His Word which is never silent. God speaks every day and every moment through His Word. My suggestion is that we seek something more than what He has offered and we are fooled into thinking it is either dark or we are in a desert.
This reminds me of a television show vignette where some men find themselves in a desert with a tanker truck near by. There is no gas to drive the tanker truck so they can escape the desert and its lack of water to take them to where water is. They end up dying of thirst never realizing in the tanker was all the water they needed.
[…] – Al Mohler What Would Jesus Do (About Malaria)? – Larry Hollon, Huffington Post When God Goes Dark – C. Michael Patton A Case for Hell – Ross Douthat Canterbury, Consumerism, and […]
Some of those anecdotal testimonies are genuine but many I tend to doubt, especially the high octane experiences that seem to have God on tap. After 20 years in Pentecostalism I’ve gone the other way where I now delight in a nondescript life (the 1 Thes 4:11 kind) without the anxiety of looking out for the fireworks.
Nowadays, none of my encounters with God are in ‘real time’ but only in retrospect, that is, when I look back I can sometimes connect the dots where I can see God’s involvement (providence?) in a particular situation. This way God’s involvement is more evidentiary and less speculative (hope I make sense).
Also Michael, if I was to take a stab in the dark on Rom 1:24 I would suspect that if God (hypothetically) withdrew his presence from us completely, we would have no restraint toward sin and probably no desire to do right. I imagine there would not be any ‘wrestling’ at all. Then we could probably appreciate that there’s more of his ‘presence’ with us than we think…
Thanks for the great comments folks.
I put up a poll on the right concerning this subject.
john piper often really stresses that we should be delighting in jesus as our treasure. where this delight is missing, so is true faith. he stresses how important feelings are, so it concerns me so much when i lack the feelings. has anyone here read john piper?
I feel like my Christian life 5+ years ago used to be more experiential as you describe. Over the last few years, though, I feel like I’ve become not only critical of others but most of all myself. Now I second-guess those past experiences and wonder, almost convinced even, that I’ve only drummed them up through my emotions. I confess that this criticism is squelching the possibility of anything spiritually life-changing/inspiring/directing/etc.. It is preventing me from even considering that these encounters might have been and be real. And as I know he could have written these words as well, my husband and I are in this same place. Did we drive one another here?? Our our recent questions bad, did they take away our child-like faith? I thought marriage is supposed to encourage spiritual vulnerability, not critique and suffocate it. I want to freely believe like I used to but I feel like I’m too “aware” for my own good now.
What a great post! I so relate to this so much. Right now I feel that I am on the back side of the desert or the back side of the moon. God seems so far right now yet I have hope that I will praise Him again in the midst of His people.
Thanks for writing this.
CMP: “I actually like to hear these stories so long as people don’t try to make them out to be the normative Christian experience.”
Amen!!!
Great post, Michael!!
debra walker says:
john piper often really stresses that we should be delighting in jesus as our treasure. where this delight is missing, so is true faith. he stresses how important feelings are, so it concerns me so much when i lack the feelings. has anyone here read john piper?
_______________
Allow me to recommend ignoring John Piper’s erring view on this (this isn’t a set up is it 🙂 ). His doctrine of Christian Hedonism has been soundly rebutted and rejected in many quarters of Christianity. Piper does not, and still cannot, properly distinguish between emotion and thought in his hermeneutic and his doctrine is based on failing to distinguish between the two which is critical to the objective grasp of Scripture. Delighting is a mental state, the emotions that follow are anecdotal, not what is in view. Unfortunately Piper has lead (and still is) many people down this dead end path. But I believe C. Michael Patton does not want this to turn into a thread about Piper so…
To be happy to have a “non-descript” walk with God (as one poster says above) seems to be a bit extreme to me. I don’t know of anyone that’s in our lives would like their relationship described as “non-descript.”
I understand the need by many to combat the hyper-experiential testimonies and requirements of Pentecostalism, but I believe some people’s positions may be a bit extreme. I don’t know of anything that is real that doesn’t cause some sort of sensation or “feeling”. If you have never felt anything as a result of your faith I have to question whether your faith is real. Now how often, what type of experience I’m not trying to define. But I can’t imagine anything being real that doesn’t cause some sort of reaction. Now it may be the thirst that is present that is the “feeling” but there has to be something otherwise how do you know it’s real? The Bible says to taste and see that the Lord is good. That has to imply some sort of experience. Doesn’t it?
It seems that we should experience something. Relationships may be best based on objective facts but they certainly should have the power to stir emotions, to move the soul. It is hard for me to believe that anyone who has a relationship with GOD hasn’t experience Him in some subjective way. I agree we don’t base our faith on experience, but shouldn’t experience naturally flow from a relationship with an awesome presence?
Thanks John,
I am curious. What does the experience that you think all should have look like?
How about this for experiencing something from Romans 12:2:
And be not conformed (continuously yielding to the configuring-from the Greek present passive) to this world (eon-age); but be ye transformed (continuously allowing yourself to be transformed-from the Greek present passive) by (means of) the renewing of your minds (implying the Word of God as the source) that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
What do I experience? A transformed mind that is able to continually test and know (dokimazein) the good, pleasing (euareston) and mature (teleion) will of God.
Michael, for an experience how about a hunger and thirst for righteousness? You don’t think that stems from the presence of God? Hard to believe that someone who ascribes to irresistible grace and unconditional election could not chalk this up to the presence of God.
Detroit,
Not at all. If you want to count that as experience, I am game. But it is not the type of experience I am talking about in this post.
A thought occured to me while reading this post. Could it be, Michael that God has been using these “dark” times to prepare you for your present ministry with the “Thomas'”. You don’t belittle those that are struggling with faith. You instead are able to say to them, “Hey, I totally understand. Let me offer you some food for thought & encouragement.” You’ve been able to “stay the course” through the seasons of doubt. Your ministry is authentic & successful BECAUSE of the wrestling, not in spite of the wrestling. Maybe God sometimes uses this in all of us, to varying degrees for various reasons. Maybe this reasoning is too simplistic, but I wanted to share it with everyone here. Bless you!
I do chalk that up as experience, because I don’t believe I would have that sensation of hunger or thirst without God. To me that is one of the valuable lessons I retain from being raised in Pentecostalism, is the search for and recognition of God’s presence. It’s not the basis of my faith but the result of it.
@ DETROIT # 18
By ‘nondescript life’ I don’t mean the denial of special moments but to stop chasing after them and not use them as a blessing barometer. Also I think you’re referring to reactionary emotions which we all get at times, but that’s not what we’re discussing here.
I continue to get deeply moved (and sometimes watery-eyed) when I watch David Attenborough’s ‘Life’ BBC documentaries because the magnitude of God’s creative power completely overwhelms me. But that’s me reacting and not God directly giving me a spiritual high so I can give my testimony next Sunday.
The ‘special’ moments are the exceptions not the rule. Oswald Chambers put it best.
“We are not made for brilliant moments, but we have to walk in the light of them in ordinary ways. There was only one brilliant moment in the life of Jesus, and that was on the Mount of Transfiguration; then He emptied Himself the second time of His glory, and came down into the demon-possessed valley.”
John,
That makes sense. I agree totally with you about not chasing major occurrences and using them as a barometer for blessings. But that’s not what the post is referring to and neither was my comment. I simply stated that I don’t understand how you can claim something is real if it doesn’t cause some sort of sensation. In response to the “non-descript” remark. And if I misunderstood you, I stand corrected. Now you can call that reactionary emotion if that’s what you want to call it, and I have no gripes with that. I choose to believe it is reactionary to the presence of God. Michael made a statement recently regarding God’s omnipresence along the lines of God is not everywhere, but everywhere is in the presence of God. The issue is can you recognize the presence of God and if you do, you will react accordingly.
John,
One more thing. The quote from Oswald works if you consider God’s voice from heaven declaring who you are and his pleasure with you lacking in brilliance or the triumphant entrance non-descript or the dead responding to your voice mundane.
If we hope for what we do not see, then we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Rom 8:25
Without faith it is impossible to please God. Heb 11:6
His word is really the only hope and comfort I have. My so-called walk with God is usually determined with how hard I hold on to his promises. I am convinced that our God is most pleased by our perseverance to believe without seeing, including the peace that passes understanding. For I only find God most significant in my life when I cease to be sufficient in myself, lackluster, inferior and without means to depend on myself. That is my normative experience—there are times when I know his hand has come through and delivered me, which has given me confidence. I suppose his word mixed with his invisible hand moving in my life from time to time is what pushes me forward. I am thankful that I have made it thus far, against all odds. And here I am, hope intact.
Experiences of God may be great and may be real…and they may also not be.
The trouble here is that we cannot trust in them.
St. Paul warns us that “the devil can come all dressed up as an angel of light.”
So, we don’t look to our experience, and we don’t look to our feelings, but instead we look to God’s promises that come from outside of ourselves.
In preaching, in the Bible, in the Sacraments, and in the consolation of the brethren. These things can be counted on.
I don’t know if THIS experience means anything, but I’d just finished reading this post this morning when I bumped my cup of coffee all over the keyboard of my macbook 🙁
Not sure if my little mac will live or die yet….giving it a dry-out period. There could be dark days ahead. I’m on my son’s mac tonight…..
An excellent article and some great comments. They reminded me of the opening of Watchman Nee’s book. “What is the normal Christian life? We do well at the outset to ponder this question. The object of these studies is to show that it is something very different from the life of the average Christian.”
How would we help one another unless we each have had a variety of experiences so we can show an understanding love to those who think they are struggling alone?
I can’t say I live on the mountain top, and I have been in the dark valley with no feeling of his presence where the only thing to hold on to was God’s word , but I am not in the dark place any longer.
Your survey does not have a category to cover this. Your categories seem to assume either God did not go dark, or that He goes dark and stays dark.
Yes, at one point things went dark for me; but it is not dark any longer. The darkness was a great cure for smugness and a lesson in humility.
This is a good reminder of a necessary path on the way to becoming like Christ! Sooner or later, we will resonate with the psalmist who asked, “How long, O LORD ? Will you forget me forever? How long will you hide your face from me? How long must I wrestle with my thoughts and every day have sorrow in my heart?” (Psalm 13:1-2). More than once, I have identified with his cry: “I am worn out calling for help; my throat is parched. My eyes fail, looking for my God. Answer me, O LORD, out of the goodness of your love; in your great mercy turn to me. Do not hide your face from your servant; answer me quickly, for I am in trouble. Come near and rescue me…” (Psalm 69:3, 16-18).
I wrote recently along these lines if interested:
http://thinkpoint.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/when-faith-in-god-causes-confusion/
Really enjoyed the article though I have to say, I couldn’t get all of the grammatical errors to stop bugging me. Have someone proofread before you send to thousands of readers 😉
Today, I had an interesting conversation with God. My brother is going through a divorce and is having a mental breakdown, we are trying to figure out how to get him to accept help, he is homicidal and suicidal. I am dealing with the sin of overeating and in times when I am anxious I turn to food, rather than God and the temptation hit. So I turned to God and started discussing my anxiety. I felt the Holy Spirit ask me “do you believe I love you?” Yes, I answered, “do you believe I love your brother?” Yes, I answered again. Do you believe I will save your brother and I said that I was unsure. I said you didn’t save Micheal Patton’s sister and as a matter of fact I could go over there and get killed myself and I am not sure you would save me from that, but I am sure that you have saved me from an eternity apart from God and for that I am deeply grateful. That’s how it ended, it didn’t ease my anxiety about my brother but I didn’t turn to food either. We just go forward in the dark.
Dear Michael, that was once again an excellent post. I appreciate that you are so open and transparent when it comes to your problems in your spiritual walk. This is actually what I am looking for in a Christian leader/writer. And as far as the proofreading is concerned: I’m not a native speaker but I can understand you perfectly well 🙂
I am so glad you brought this subject up.I too hear others say so much about the joy they have and that I will have it too.And when I don’t feel that joy for days or months or years on end, then I can start to wonder about my faith or lack thereof. I don’t mean I never laugh.I do laugh.I laugh hard!But that seems to be a different joy than what “they” talk about.It’s as if I am supposed to be walking on air most days.And I try.I think of my blessings….eventually. I think of my salvation & I am relieved & glad about that.Are happy/glad the same thing? Anyway, I am happy when exposed to happiness, meaning truly joyful people. But when I get out of their presence, I’m just me. Sometimes silly & sometimes sullen & a bit preoccupied with how I don’t physically feel well. Then I snap out of myself & start the cycle all over again. I admit, a hip that hurts with every step, a bulging disc that affects my sleep, a neuro problem that affects my sight and ability to read swiftly & comfortably,brings me down. Is it a test? I don’t know.But it does test me whether it’s from God or it isn’t.Bty, someone in a new class I’m in keeps talking about how she has gotten a word from God over the years. Sometimes she gets one for the YEAR!! She’s also a Henry Blackaby fan if that means anything?I am a John MacArthur fan since he doesn’t get a word or visions or dreams. But he escapes depression somehow?Due to his confidence in God’s promises?Anyway, what does it mean,God gave me a…
What does it mean, God gave me a word? My previous post dropped off of all things, my last word, WORD! Go figure. And why do these individuals seek a word from God? Why not just pray and read scripture? I think I must be missing something here?
Four years ago. I recommitted my life to Christ. Church on a regular basis, bible study, church outings, making new friends etc. Really turning my life around. Last November I was laid off from my longtime job. Over 130 of us were. I had seen the layoffs coming and prayed for a really long time that God would help me find a job before the layoffs. Well, that didn’t happen. For the last nine months, I have been seeking work, networking, etc. I mean I am a degreed professional here that is single, without kids and a small apt. I did take a part-time job six months ago in a local garden center to help supplement my unemployment. My unemployment has now ended, the tires on my car are shot, and for the first time, I cannot pay my bills. My phone and internet will be cut-off any day. I have been on job interviews where it made no sense that I DIDN’T get the job. I have sought out work in other areas, asked God to lead me in a different direction since it looks as if my chosen career field isn;t working out. I have tithed when I didn;t have the money, i have prayed when i didn;t want to. I have held on when I wanted to walk away. But today, I am in a crisis of faith. I am walking away. Why would God be so silent at a time when I needed him the most?