Join us as Tim Kimberley, J.J. Seid, and Sam Storms discuss whether or not Jesus knew the time of his second coming.
Join us as Tim Kimberley, J.J. Seid, and Sam Storms discuss whether or not Jesus knew the time of his second coming.
15 replies to "Theology Unplugged: Did Jesus Know the Time of His Return?"
If we go by a global frame of reference, before manmade time zones came into the picture, and we divide the day into 24 equal hours with an infinite gradation of sub-seconds, then every possible time of day coexists simultaneously on some part of the globe. Every eye will see him, so it is pretty fair to say that the time of his return will be every time from 0:00 hours until 23.9999999999999999 … hours. Just having fun. I’ll have to listen to this later.
Edgar Wisenant wrote a book providing 88 reasons that Christ was going to come again in 1988. He claimed that nobody knows the hour or day, according to the Bible, so he simply claimed to know the year and the week.
We had fun using logic to show how if nobody can ever know the exact day, then it is also impossible to know the week. If we know the week, and six days of the week have passed, then we would know the day is the seventh day of the week, and we would know so before Christ returns. Therefore, since nobody can know the day ahead of time, it rules out the seventh day of the week as a possibility. So we move to only having the first six days possible. But if five days end, then we would know he must come back on the sixth day … and so on with the same logic, until all seven days are ruled out. All this is not to mention, that the week one specifies would be beginning and ending at different times all across the globe, so presumably we go by Jerusalem time zone, perhaps?
@ Glenn
Of what value is your Pragmatic approach to my post? Faux pas Mon Ami
the Truth — what is it
if you were in the desert with no water you knew death would soon find you
would you look for oasis there be water and life. the Word of Jehovah is such a Oasis
the water of life
Such water you must have every day
Second Law of Thermodynamics. This law (note: not a theory but a law) teaches us that in every chemical or heat reaction, there is a loss of energy that never again is available for another heat reaction. This is why things break down if left to themselves, and why scientists tell us that the universe is headed toward a heat death.
This law teaches us, then, that the universe is headed toward increasing randomness and decay.
But what does the theory of evolution teach us? The exact opposite, that the universe is headed toward increasing complexity and order. You put up a scientific theory against my scientific law, I’m going to settle for the law every time, thank you very much.
Plus, this teaches us that the universe had to have a beginning. If you see a watch winding down, one thing you know with absolute certainty is that somebody wound it up.
Intelligent Design theory offers not only a Watchmaker but a Watch-winder; evolution does not.
It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the smallest point of God’s law to be overturned.
Or a 747 to fly over junk yard and duplicat its self or repurpose to better model
Tough subject to cover in 25 mins. Kenosis, diophocite christology found in the Athanasian creed.
There are some assumptions in how the topic is setup. The example of Jesus’ knowledge of where to cast a net to catch fish as being a result of his omniscience seems problematic. Do we believe that the knowledge John the Baptist had that Jesus was the lamb of God, or Peter had that Jesus was the messiah, or Agabus had of Paul’s future arrest, or Paul intuition that certain people were say demonized, was due to their omniscience?
So quickly we see that many individuals in the Old and New Testaments received knowledge from God about many things in the form of what 1 Corinthians 12,14 describe as words of knowledge and prophecy. If we understand Jesus’ supernatural knowledge as functioning through the power of the spirit as prophecy and words of knowledge Matt. 24:36 becomes powerless to injure Jesus’ divine nature.
Often in the West over the last 50 years we inherit these interpretive problems because of an unnatural hermeneutic requiring reduction of the HS working through gifts today, in us, in apostles, and finally in Jesus. However these discussion have been boiling over in the church since at least the second century. If you look at John’s writing you can determine that he wanted to deal directly with gnostic misrepresentations of Jesus’ nature. So these issues have been around before the completion of the NT.
I am not attempting the genetic fallacy here. The point that Matt. 24:36 is most probably NOT a reference to Jesus accessing his omniscient attribute is based on exegesis of this passage and others on Jesus’ dual nature and points discussed very aptly by the three theological amigos on this podcast.
That. is also why from the day we heard of it, we have never. stopped. praying for you and asking that you may be filled with the accurate knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual comprehension. (Jehovah) Col 1:9-10
JW is a advocate of not negative, protest but one positive instruction We don’t have disputes, but do point out contractions so that sincere individuals gain accurate knowledge. Col 2:8 Eph 5:6 Heb 13:9. Eph 1:20,21 1Pet 3:22
Returning. 1Co 3:19,Col 2:8. When? Mat 24:3, Answer 24:4-14 Lu 21:7-8-9
Time to understand 1Ti 4:1 and 2Pe 2:1. The beginning has started
Christ’s presence Matt 24:37-39
Acts 1:9-11
Dan 7:13-14
Rapture ?___ 1Thess 4:13-18. 1 Cor 15:50
2Thess 1:7-9
Bible teaches Col 1:15,16
Is the first born also he that created him-self See Mark 13:32 If the son was also the Father (God) then he would know and as a human he will have to know unless as the Son lesser extent not permitted a equality of Jehovah a greater personality and not coequal a question remains. Why did the Holy Spirit not know?
How did such ideas and practices seep into Christianity? The same researcher observed that, in the centuries after the death of Christ’s apostles, especially in Egypt, “Christian ideas were confronted by the ‘pagan amalgam’—made out of Egyptian, Greek, Jewish, Oriental and Roman practices and beliefs which were practiced alongside Christian confession.” As a result, “Christian artisans adapted [an interfaith] method and made use of pagan symbols, putting them within a new context, although not purifying them totally from pagan influence.”
Soon icons became the focus of both private and public religious life. In the book The Age of Faith, historian Will Durant describes how this came about, saying: “As the number of worshiped saints multiplied, a need arose for identifying and remembering them; pictures of them and of Mary were produced in great number; and in the case of Christ not only His imagined form but His cross became objects of reverence—even, for simple minds, magic talismans. A natural freedom of fancy among the people turned the holy relics, pictures, and statues into objects of adoration; people prostrated themselves before them, kissed them, burned candles and incense before them, crowned them with flowers, and sought miracles from their occult influence. . . . Fathers and councils of the Church repeatedly explained that the images were not deities, but only reminders thereof; the people did not care to make such distinctions.”
Today, many who use religious icons would similarly argue that images are merely objects of respect—not worship. They might claim that religious paintings are legitimate—even indispensable—aids in worshiping God. Perhaps you feel the same way. But the question is, How does God feel about this? Could it be that veneration of an icon really amounts to worshiping it? Can such practices actually pose hidden dangers?
Josef, that Dec 11th post is very hard to follow. I am sure there are at least a few typos in there, and that must cloud what you mean to say. Are you a non-native speaker of English? Would it be possible to have someone proofread and then re-post? As to the icons, I agree that there are hidden dangers, and even unhidden dangers. There will always be idolatry on the planet, taking many different forms. Are you trying to say that Jesus has become an idol for many when we worship him as God?
Recently I saw a dramatized version of Moses’ life. Some idolatry must go on there as well, but I am not sure it is the fault of the people presenting the event. A lot of good preaching of the Gospel goes on there through the way the message is portrayed, that would not touch many in the written form of a book or words on pages. The Son of God himself was totally without sin, and always did what the Father commanded, nothing more and nothing less, … yet he had people coming to him trying to make him the magic wand of their lives in corrupt ways. We can’t take the crowd’s idolatry as the basis to start saying that Jesus was wrong in his presentation of God’s works words.
Where much good can be done, there is also the risk of much evil. Where good is avoided in the name of safety and avoiding risk, we end up like the man who buried his talent so as not to lose any of it. He was not praised for his safe steps and protection of what was entrusted to him; he was condemned for not taking any risks, since He should have known that the master was not afraid; heck, the master can reap where he hasn’t even sown; the master doesn’t need our protection, but he desires our cooperation for His glory!
What are 1-2-3-5-8-13-21 prime#?
Thanks for sharing!
Nothing in the history of the Universe has ever gotten better when left alone!! Yet God controls every electron with his spoken word they obey.
Second Law of Thermodynamics. This law (note: not a theory but a law) teaches us that in every chemical or heat reaction, there is a loss of energy that never again is available for another heat reaction. This is why things break down if left to themselves, and why scientists tell us that the universe is headed toward a heat death.
This law teaches us, then, that the universe is headed toward increasing randomness and decay.
But what does the theory of evolution teach us? The exact opposite, that the universe is headed toward increasing complexity and order. You put up a scientific theory against my scientific law, I’m going to settle for the law every time, thank you very much.
Plus, this teaches us that the universe had to have a beginning. If you see a watch winding down, one thing you know with absolute certainty is that somebody wound it up.
Intelligent Design theory offers not only a Watchmaker but a Watch-winder; evolution does not.
It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the smallest point of God’s law to be overturned.
Or a 747 to fly over junk yard and duplicat its self or repurpose to better model
The emptying / humiliation of Christ which left him without the Father’s knowledge seems to make sense, until you consider that Jesus excludes the Holy Spirit from such knowledge as well. The Holy Spirit is also God in every sense, yet never went through the kenosis.
I know that the topic is whether or not Christ knew the hour of his return, but it would be an interesting question to ask whether the Spirit knew the future hour of Christ’s return, in light of Trinitarian teaching and Jesus saying that only the Father knew.
If you haven’t guessed, I’ve actually been able to hear the audio now. It was a good discussion. Thank you, gentlemen.