Join Michael Patton, Tim Kimberley and Sam Storms as they discuss the Calvinism.
Summary: During this broadcasts the hosts discuss issues surrounding the forth point of the TULIP: Irresistible Grace.
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Join Michael Patton, Tim Kimberley and Sam Storms as they discuss the Calvinism.
Summary: During this broadcasts the hosts discuss issues surrounding the forth point of the TULIP: Irresistible Grace.
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Other ways to get TUP:
6 replies to "Theology Unplugged: Invitation to Calvinism – Part 10"
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OK, Mike, if you insist… 😉
Invitation to Calvinism
WHY are you a Calvinist, Mike? Remember that old post of yours, where you said that one of THE most blessed things that happened to you was when a woman, friend of your mother, said about you when you did something wrong, “He has a good heart”? — Calvinism says the exact opposite: that you have a Totally Depraved heart (not just “corrupted”, or “divided”, or “[partly]-sinful” heart, but a totally depraved one). How do you manage to reconcile these two things? Or have you simply never thought about it? 😐
We have a Calvinest who is so happy that people are sinners and going to be thrown into the Lake of Fire. He says, “those in the lake are there for the glory of God.” He so upset some of my friends in our Bible Study that I am ready to let him leave our church.
Lucian, the historic Christian perspective of mankind is that we are inherently evil, how evil we are however is another matter.
There are varying views of Total Depravity within Calvinism. Some Calvinists hold to man being so corrupt they no longer possess the image of God, where other Calvinists do not go in that direction.
Also, there are distinctions that have been made regarding the nature of humanity. While depravity is total and has affected our moral ability (ability and desire to trust Christ) it has not affected our natural faculties (meaning we have the natural mental faculties to assent to the Gospel due to our bearing the image of God).
So your question is somewhat flawed You are stating what the Calvinist view is yet are not representing the entire spectrum of Calvinistic views on Total Depravity. Perhaps you have not been exposed to the spectrum of Calvinistic views out there and subsequently are unable to study it fully?
Carrie, I don’t see how you’ve shown that Lucian’s question is flawed. “You are inherently evil” and “You have a good heart” seem to be incongruous assertions.
Rather than just saying that there is a spectrum of views within the Reformed tradition and suggesting that Lucian is mistaken because he isn’t familiar with said spectrum, why don’t you bear the burden and demonstrate that the two statements above are not, in fact, incompatible?
The best I could come up would be to re-cast the second statement as, “Your heart isn’t as wicked as other people I know.” Doesn’t seem to have the same ring! 🙂
Gentlemen,
I do not think Michael ever said that he agreed with the statement “he has a good heart.” The truth is that such a statement IS incompatible with total depravity. The point made in the post mentioned, I believe, is not that Michael heard a woman make an accurate theological statement about the condition of mankind’s heart, but that the statement made an impact on his decisions, thus playing a role in the direction of his life.
God is sovereign even over theological error 🙂
I think “You have a good heart” is cultural, emotive language in the vernacular. It is not meant to be a technical theological pronouncement. It is like when the OT talks about certain people being “righteous”. I don’t think in OT that it means they were considered sinless or righteous in the sense that Paul uses the word righteous in the NT.