Without question, one of the most disturbing trends in the world of theology is that, far too often, grace is eclipsed by theological legalism.
Twice today I encountered this in its most blatant forms by two very different types of people. Both were very passionate about theology and both, undoubtedly, believe that their attitude toward me or my teaching is justified and honoring to the Lord. However, I believe both of these men sacrificed the major issue – grace – in defense of minor issues in theology.
The first, whose name I will not share as he is undoubtedly well-known to most of you, caught me very much off guard (and it is not really easy to catch me off guard, as I receive dozens of “hate” emails every day from those who believe it is their job to put me back on the path of theological correctness). This man, a significant figure in the world of reformation theology, does not believe I take theology seriously enough. Of course, his reasons come (I imagine) from the fact that I don’t agree with him. And obviously, if I took theology seriously, I would agree with him! Ironically, this lack of grace often comes from those who believe most strongly in the reformed “doctrines of grace.” But this man sent me one of the most ungracious emails I have ever received. And, yes, it did hurt my feelings. But more than that, sensing that this man’s criticism of me comes from his general disdain for the “heresy” of Evangelical Calvinism – it discouraged me that someone who believes he is so right theologically could be so graceless personally.
The second came from a Fundamentalist who was quite disturbed that I would suggest that Catholics could be saved. To be fair, I remember in the mid-nineties when Billy Graham suggested the same on national television. I was so angry and confused. I could not believe that Billy Graham would be so theologically inept as to make such a suggestion. In order for me to retain the belief that Billy Graham was saved, I had to convince myself that he had just gone senile in his old age. But this came from someone who has been a believer for quite some time and is a leader in his local church. This one statement (“Catholics can be saved”) has served to disqualify me and all of my teachings. To him, I will forever be one of the many who has compromised my faith for the glory of acceptance among men.
Theological legalism is nothing new (and is certainly not limited to the world of theology). Think of the Pharisees who, according to Christ, strained out gnats and swallowed camels (Matt. 23:24). To the theological legalist, there is no such thing as a gnat. Christ spoke of the weightier things of the Law (Matt. 23:23). To the doctrinal legalist, all issues are equally weighty. Paul spoke of things of “first importance” (1 Cor. 15:3); to those who are theological Pharisees, everything is of first importance. There is rarely, if ever, a second.
I find this very typical of those who call themselves “true” Calvinists. You will sometimes be given more grace by these if you don’t claim to be a Calvinist. But if you claim to be so, you are never Calvinistic enough. They live to nit-pick all the minor details they believe you get wrong about reformed theology. Nothing makes them angrier than so-called “Evangelical Calvinists” (such as me). I also find this among those egalitarians who wear bitterness on their sleeves, believing everyone who opposes them is doing so in order to oppress. I see this among Christian evolutionists who attempt to belittle anyone who opposes their position (some even calling creationists “cultic”). This theological fundamentalism elevates doctrine above the mandates that the doctrine necessitates. Right belief becomes their primary call to righteousness.
And let me not forget Roman Catholics. The system itself demands acceptance of everything the Church has ever dogmatized, from the resurrection of Christ to the assumption of Mary. The Catholic Catechism – to which all Roman Catholics must submit – is almost as long as the Bible itself. And I rarely meet a gracious Eastern Orthodox. Though they disdain Catechisms, they seem to have an unspoken canon which produces an incredible arrogance. And then there are the Baptists . . . oh, where to begin?!
Of course, there are many exceptions to all of these and I don’t mean to indict any without qualification. There are some shining examples of grace, wisdom, and humility in all of these traditions. I think of my Eastern Orthodox friend Bradley Nassif. I think of Irene, our Roman Catholic commentator. I think of Thomas Schreiner, an incredibly humble Baptist scholar and pastor. And, as you have noticed, I placed my own Calvinistic tradition on the stand. But the sad truth is that very often, the deeper one gets into theological passions, the more corrupt our ability to treat others with grace and humility becomes.
Here are some ways to know if you are a theological legalist:
- You don’t think there are “minor theological issues”
- You always define yourself with the word “true” in front of it (e.g., “I am a ‘true’ Calvinist,” “I am a ‘true’ Baptist,” or “I am a ‘true’ Christian”).
- Your statement of faith or catechism is so detailed that no one but your particular tradition can sign it.
- Your passions focus on the small issues and this finds expression in your personality.
- Most of your theological writing and/or discussion focuses on where other Christians have gone wrong.
- You have a bulldog mentality with regard to your “pet” issues; you cannot let things go emotionally. You have to leave the room.
- When one disagrees with you they are forever defined by that disagreement (“There goes Joe the Arminian,” or “I would like to introduce you to Katie the Complementarian.”
- You think belief is either black or white, you either have it or you don’t; there is no in-between and certainly no room for doubt.
- You think all those outside of your tradition are either going to hell or are less spiritual than you are (i.e., all Catholics are going to hell, all Protestants are going to hell, all those who suggest otherwise are going to hell, etc.)
- There are only three reasons why people disagree with you: 1) they don’t have enough or the right knowledge, 2) they have compromised, and/or 3) they are justifying in some sin.
- No one outside of your tradition wants to talk theology with you (and you take it as a badge of honor).
- When you write about other Christians, you continually find yourself putting the word “Christian” in quotes.
- Your statement of faith is so qualified no one can understand it.
- You are always shutting conversation down by accusations of logical fallacies ad absurdum.
Of course we all have these problems from time to time. And I am not saying the word “Christian” should not be placed in quotes for some people. But if you find yourself identifying with many items on this list too often, you may have the problem of doctrinal legalism which, in my opinion, is the most dangerous trap out there for those of us who love theology. I have been there and still wrestle with my own theological legalism. But this is something we all need to repent of, and teach our students and children about its dangers.
If you love theology, please be the first to put on the attitude of humility. When someone speaks about you in this regard, don’t have your goal to be for others to think you are smart or right, but rather humble and meek. When others talk about your personality with regard to theological discourse, would they say you are arrogant and legalistic, or gracious and gentle? This does not mean we sacrifice our passions or beliefs, it just means we temper ourselves for the sake of the Gospel. The truth is too important for us to lose our witness due to theological legalism.
Titus 3:2
[Instruct them] to malign no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing every consideration for all men.
Phi 4:5
Let your gentle spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near.
2 Tim 2:25-26
With gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.
204 replies to "Fourteen Characteristics of Theological Legalism"
What makes a false teacher a false teacher?
FALSE D-O-C-T-R-I-N-E
What makes a false Christ a false Christ?
FALSE D-O-C-T-R-I-N-E
What makes Billy Graham a false teacher?
FALSE D-O-C-T-R-I-N-E.
It doesn’t matter that he has some true doctrine mixed in with his false doctrine. Even demons believe God is one and that Christ will return one day to judge them. Are you ready to sit at their feet and listen to them expound on the gospel simply because they believe God is one?
Graham agrees that God is Trinity, and that Christ is the Second Person of the Trinity. So what? So do most pagan Americans who call themselves Christian. I bet even Snooki agrees that God is Trinity and that Christ is the Second Person of the Trinity. I bet she even wept at a showing of The Passion of the Christ. So what? That doesn’t make her a believer!
Good grief, you people are so deceived. Is it American TV? Is that what made you so blind?
Take one day, just one day, to read the Westminster Confession of 1649 or the London Baptist Confession of 1689 and then come back here and try to tell me you aren’t complete frauds.
My gosh. If you have bad doctrine, you are already separated from the love of God!!!!
1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
David. I don’t say this lightly. But, I have been following your comments here since you started. I think your a troll. But here in Australia, we have a particular term, that once again, I don’t use lightly. But, just as Paul used the colloquium about how he wished they went the whole hog and cut all their tackle off…
Simply put, you are a royal WANKER!
I’d rather be a wanker for God, than a nice fellow for Satan.
Unfortunately, you fail dismally with your representation of God. I would go and find out the truth about what love really is David.
As I said, your a real TROLL. Now you could be mentally ill and if so, we can work alongside that. But, you are now reaping the lack of grace you have shown others in this forum.
Personally, I find you are actually held in the grip of the evil one along the same lines as those who work for him at West Boro. Maybe you attend that church…you certainly fit in with them.
I give Scripture, while you give fat, stupid opinion. There you go.
For God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son, so that who soever believes in him, shall not perish, but shall inherit eternal life. John 3:16.
Whosoever what? That’s right, BELIEVES IN HIM. Believes in who? That’s right, IN HIM. Not, mind you, believes in any old Christ, but rather a very specific Christ. Here, check this out, same chapter:
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
Hey, check this out too. Same Gospel. Two chapters earlier:
John 1:9-13
9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to his own, and his own did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Thoroughly exposes you as a fraud, doesn’t it. Yep. Thoroughly.
Your highness. You miss the point. It doesn’t say who so ever believes in double predestination. It doesn’t say who so ever believes in TULIP. It doesn’t say who so ever believes in David Bishops extreme demonic version of the gospel.
It simply says, who believes in me shall not perish.
Guess what….that includes the Arminians and perhaps some of the Calvinists… but I”m not sure it includes you.. because you think you are saved by what you believe.. and not that you believe in Christ… huge difference.
Anyway, as I said, I do recognise after reading your blog, you exhibit remarkable traits of mental illness and grand delusion, but in reality we can work with that.
But from now on, I have said my piece about you being mentally ill and a right royal wanker…and from now on, so that I can retain my sense of peace – I will refuse to have anything to do with you any more.
Greg…lol! I was kinda being ironic with that statement, seeing as he was casting everyone else into the lake of fire.
Your point about him not being a troll is taken on board and that in my opinion makes him doubly dangerous.
As I have said before, I now say again. I do not know Chris Duncan, have never spoken to Chris Duncan, have never even heard the name Chris Duncan before his name was brought up here. I certainly did not get anything from Chris Duncan. I got it from Christ.
You agree with about 3% of what I say, Greg, so you can do yourself a favor and cut out the fibbing.
I don’t care if what I say offends you. I really, literally, could not care less. I post on these boards knowing ahead of time that the message of the Cross is going to offend, so I am not surprised in the least that it does.
Lastly, emotionalism is not an epistemology. Your emotional appeals are pointless and fallacious. I count it as rubbish as I do all self righteousness.
“Your point about him not being a troll is taken on board and that in my opinion makes him doubly dangerous.”
You are absolutely correct about that. Triple dangerous, even. To those who are perishing, I have indeed the aroma of death.
2 Cor 2:16
Greg Trib. I am glad that I am not saved by how I believe the atonement works, nor how election works – though I do have my own beliefs about such.
For myself, Paul says that if I believe in my heart and confess with my mouth that Jesus is Lord, then I am saved.
How sad it is when we add to Scripture that which Scripture doesn’t say about salvation.
Matthew 7:
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
They confessed Jesus as Lord. Is that what Paul meant by confessing Jesus as Lord? Slap a label on the end of His name, and presto! chango! you’re saved?
Romans 10:1-4 Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that THEY HAVE A ZEAL FOR GOD, BUT NOT ACCORDING TO KNOWLEDGE. For, BEING IGNORANT OF THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD, and seeking to establish their own, THEY DID NOT SUBMIT TO GOD’S RIGHTEOUSNESS. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Greg…you really got to be joking about that outside the camp link. They have nearly every well know preacher I have heard of in that list of preachers outside the camp.
David Bishop – what makes you so sure that your interpretations of those Scriptures are so right.. after all, I also believe the Bible to be the word of God and read the same passages you do.
David,
You are an angry person. It’s alright, people get angry. Christ still forgives. I do not see how you are living out the truth of what you wish to profess. If you truly believe that you are so exclusively, ultimately saved by Christ with flawless doctrine to which all must adhere or they are simply pagans, why then do you ignore Colossians 3:12-17. There is no kindness, no meekness, and certainly no patience. You have entered into this forum not to rebuke in love, but to puff yourself up. You may not think that it is so, but everyone else can quickly tell you that you are wrong.
Now, you can either take those words as “demonic delusion” of everyone else here, or you can simply realize that you are blinded in this. If you disagree with others interpretation of Scripture, whether you are right or not, you simply do not approach as a witness to the risen Lord as an arrogant, pompous, self-righteous, all-knowing, nationalistic, narcissistic, insulting person.
Preach the truth in love. Correct with Scripture, but do not place yourself in the judgment seat of God. You do not know the heart, but God knows the heart. If you think doctrine has gone astray, approach the doctrine under the auspices of grace. I believe it is important to be firm in your convictions, but you firmly cross that line. Be careful of the measure you use, because it will be the same measure used to judge you. But not by us, by God.
God alone is perfect, His grace is sufficient, and the Spirit can change hearts and minds. I pray that you will read your words and understand the authorial emotion placed into them.
Greg, when I was a new Christian, I met a guy who held the same views. He and a couple of others with him had actually caused a number of church splits causing much hurt to many Godly people.
I also know a local Dutch reformed church in the area who are overtly reformed – but they hold a monthly BBQ in the community at the park and over a period of years have fruitfully and effectively ministered in love – making Christ known through word and deed to the broken hearted in the area.
While I may disagree with their theology, I rejoice and pray with them for their ministry to the lost and the way they minister to the lost.
I really don’t see any love coming through David at all. I wonder what sort of abusive past he has had which has made him into such a loveless person.
You read the same passages, but unlike myself, you do not believe they are true.
Does this local Dutch Reformed Church refer to those they minister to as “brothers in Christ”, “saved”, “washed by the blood”, “Christians”? Or do they simply refer to them as lost?
The fact that you disagree with my gospel does NOT make you my brother. You are not my brother, Craig. You are lost.
You don’t see any love coming through me the same way liberals do not see any love coming from conservative values. That is, the very fact that you hold my Lord’s gospel in contempt means you also hold me in contempt, for I bring the message of my Lord’s gospel, which comes to your nostrils reeking of death.
David… Paul said to the Roman church, that if you confess Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that he was raised from the dead, then you are saved. I truly believe that Jesus is Lord and was raised from the dead.
However, you say that is not enough. Hmmmm if its not enough, then you are guilty of adding to the Gospel requirements as to what is needed to be saved.
You have said enough. I have said enough. I wish I was able to disable the email function from getting any more emails from this thread, because I am not even interested in responding to your dribble any more.
I might ask Michael to now close the comments on this thread – because frankly your not making any Godly contribution to the discussion – except to truly highlight the truth of this article and how bonded you are to legalism and not the grace of Christ.
41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; … John 9
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, Acts 17
Jesus only counts the sins that we understand and know. If a person grows up knowing only the doctrine that they were taught, I don’t think God would count that against him/her. So don’t be so judgemental to those that have a different doctrine. Be loving and gently guide them. Don’t persecute them. If that person is truly after the truth and truly wants to serve God, then God will in His own time show that person the truth. Once it is shown to Him in God’s time, it is up to that person to accept it or deny it.
David, it is not up to you or me to judge and persecute. Only God can do it. And…He will do it. So just make sure that your doctrine is the truth. And make sure that you don’t grieve or deny the Holy Spirit by dogmaticlly sticking to your doctrine when He shows you the truth.
David,
I would still like to know where that great multitude around the throne that no man can number is going to come from?
You seem to have such an exclusive view of things and have stated somewhere on your own blog that God is saving only a few (I think you said “very few”?), that I really have to wonder how there could possibly be such a great and numberless throng worshipping in Heaven before the throne.
Michael Patton – I think this thread has value as an example of the mindset of theological legalism. It could be a good illustration if Credo House ever publishes something more indepth on the subject.
Where do you get that a great multitude = everyone? Thousands of years counting so far, and all of God’s elect, and you don’t think they represent a great multitude? I can tell you there will be an even greater multitude who won’t be there.
Of course you don’t, Gary. That’s because you’re lost and have not the mind of Christ.
David, I never once implied that the great multitude=everyone.
David – I wish you could see what a silly comic you are. Though you can’t comprehend this, I have had, since the age of 17 when Christ totally transformed my life, a relationship with Jesus. A living relationship that has grown day by day as I fellowship with Him and daily experience His grace.
Sorry, pal, but one thing I am sure of is the saving blood of Jesus that is my only hope. And my hope is well founded not only on the promise of His Word but also on the inner witness of the Holy Spirit that I am His and He is mine.
So while your words (“you’re lost!”) make me smile because they remind me just how faithful Christ is and how important the indwelling Spirit really is, they also make me sad because of how really warped, lonely and repellant you are. Repellant not to me, because I really do hope and pray you will escape the satanic bondage you’re in but repellant to a lost world who sees you and wants nothing to do with such a loveless caracature of “faith”.
David,
What are you going to do with a testimony like Gary’s? Are you still going to insist that he is lost because he doesn’t believe the doctrine that you insist he must?
Greg,
Did you get the message I sent to you on Facebook this a.m?
That means you got it, right? The question mark made me wonder. 🙂
Thanks Greg!
I hope no one here thinks that I’m defending Billy Graham’s pluralistic interview statments. I thought I made it clear that I did not. However, I refuse to condemn him – in fact I will stand with him – in the message he has publicly preached since the 1950’s – that Christ alone is our only hope and that only through repentance and trust in Christ can we be saved. I actually went to one of Billy Graham’s last crusades roughly 10 years ago and marveled at a small group of protestors holding signs proclaiming “Billy Graham is going to hell!” My thought was what a very sad witness to the lost that Graham himself was seeking to save.
I’ve been a Christian for 37 years. I’ve seen every spurious theology out there – Word-Faith, theological liberalism, Mormonism (LOTS of witnessing), JW (LOTS of witnessing) as well as many other cults, even a lonely Krishna guy in an airport on the way back from Israel (who condemned me for eating meat).
But my particular interest is the biographies of those who have changed the world for Christ. What I’ve found is that God refuses to be told where He can work or who He can save. That’s why the Holy Spirit can and sometimes does save someone at a Kenneth Copeland rally (whose theology I absolutely detest). I know many Catholics who I believe are saved, including the former President of the National Association of Evangelicals, Frank Beckwith.
I personally draw the line at the essentials – the nature of God and the nature of salvation (grace alone, faith alone, through Christ alone). So how can I believe that some Catholics are Christians? Simple – often people in that context place their faith in Christ for salvation without subscribing overtly to the negative aspects of Catholic theology. This won’t satisfy David Bishop. But on that I truly don’t care. Christ is Lord and my hope is in Him alone.
This nonsense is why I dont claim a specific faith. Its all over the board? Who can be right? I dont think any one has the whole truth anymore.
Good point, Carrie J.
Only the Lord holds the entirety of truth in His hand.
Thank God that He is the only One who can truly judge us.
When Bethel (the house of God) has become Babel (meaning confusion) then everyone speaks but no one listens.
Then perhaps it is best for us to walk away…?
Lora,
Walking away is definately the easy approach but unfortunately the wrong answer. Removing ourselves from the situation does not remove ourselves from the responsibility that we have to find truth. God will still hold us accountable to is law and covenants. It is our responsibility to discover truth behind all of the confusion man and its organized religion has created.
Carrie,
What none of us can escape is the brevity of life. Even atheists will agree that our time here on this planet is a nanosecond relative to eternity. So we can’t ignore God. We can deny Him but it really doesn’t make much sense to believe that time, space, energy, matter, order, complexity and information arose from nothing by chance.
Sure, man (yes, and woman!) have certainly screwed things up, but the one certain hope we have is that by all accounts, the tomb is empty. The implications therein are overwhelming. And really, really good. I mean REALLY good. You’re right to be turned off to all the theological bickering – straining at gnats for the most part – but don’t lose sight of the big picture. Jesus loves you. He demonstrated it. And that changes everything.
It seems that the view of some here is that at the gates of heaven Christ is going to be standing there with a questionnaire that has 500 theological questions on it and if you get one wrong you are going to hell. Just as a matter of reason if this were the case the extraordinarily few are going to heaven. In fact if taken to the extreme probably only one person is going to heaven (if that) since I have never seen two people who have the exact same theological stances on everything.
The question becomes how you can be so sure that your the one person in all of history who has answered correctly to all 500 questions. Oh I know I know, you’ve read the Bible and YOU REALLY believe what it says. Everyone else doesn’t really believe what the Bible says or is just pretending. Of course what you are really saying isn’t that the other people don’t believe what the Bible says, rather what you are saying is that they don’t believe what you believe the Bible says.
So why so confident?? Oh I know, I know, because you were pre-destined, “elected” to believe the Truth and you have the Holy Spirit confirming for you the Truth. But wait a second the same God who predestined you to believe what you believe, also predestined those who don’t believe what you believe to believe what they believe. And they seem to or at least claim to experience the Holy Spirit telling them that what they believe is the Truth as well. Since you never made any independent free choice to believe what you believe why believe that what you believe is the Truth and not what they believe? It could just as easily be you who has been deceived into thinking that God determined that you believe the right things. It could just as easily be you who has been deceived into thinking they experience the genuine witness of the Holy Spirit. God predestines those who believe Truth and those who believe falsehood alike and predestines them to believe that they are right.
Greg Trib..
I have thought in the past you were harsh. After reading through this thread, I have actually got where it is your coming from and why – compared to David, you really are extremely moderate… 🙂 🙂 🙂
Btw, whats your email address?
Sorry guys. I just read some of David’s increasingly ironic posts. He has been blacklisted for breaking the gentleness and kindness rule to a degree which I have never seen, Christian or non.
Thanks Michael. I too want to repent for my anger towards David on this thread and ask forgiveness for some of the words I used.
Michael – it’s your page and the administration of it is yours. But you might want to reconsider blacklisting David. I can’t speak for anyone else but he didn’t offend me in the least. In fact, his posts were very illuminating but probably not in the way he intended. How would I know your article actually had a reason for being written without David? He has a point of view that he is passionate about and in that passion, he got pretty pointed in his remarks. I did too. But it really doesn’t matter if someone tells me that I’m lost.
Anyway, just a thought.
As we strive (as in agony) to enter at the straight gate, words and others can lead us along other paths. Ex. in Matt. 7 the ‘have we not’ has an overtone of Moses giving water. Jesus said of himself he could do nothing–it is the Father who does the works.
God looks at the heart, not the mind, or the smarter would have the advantage in getting to heaven.
I know it is against your belief systems (and all our belief systems spring from our raising, our experience, our fears and hopes, betrayals and hurts, and our ability to love (which we are gifted at differently). God knows what we are, and why we are the way that we are. David is the way he is because of reasons we can’t fathom, and may be saved because he is sincere in his belief, unChristian though he appears in his angry and seemingly self-righteous posts, and as narrow and wrongheaded as his version of theology (i.e. doctrine, doctrine, doctrine) is. But he and I and everyone are only understood in our capacities and limits by God, who will judge us by His complete knowledge, love and understanding. None of us knows if we are saved; we believe it, we hope it, we fool ourselves into thinking it must be so. And maybe we are all right. But only God knows. Let us focus on our own imperfections, and try to understand that we can’t really understand who another is, other than a child of God, loved by God, redeemed if God judges us of being worthy of it through Jesus’ sacrifice and His knowledge of who and what we are.
Sorry to go on so long, but my heart is breaking over what I’ve read here. We need to see each other a little more as God sees us, and as Jesus was willing to die for, and as the Holy Spirit is available to guide us if we, in humility and love, accept that guidance.
My apologies if anything I said above was offensive to your theology or your feelings. It is right to try to correct brothers and sisters wandering off the path; but as was stated above, some of us get too adamant, and actually drive them off the path by showing them an ugly, judgmental face and making them defensive. Jesus forgave the good thief, who was in all likelihood a murderer; he did not, though, turn around and yell at the thief who mocked him “But you, sir, are going to hell!” Jesus was the perfect psychologist, Who understood the human heart (and its need for mercy and forgiveness) better than anyone else ever will. Try his system; it works.
Antoninus,
Wow! I completely agree with you. We cannot know if we will be saved or not until that judgement day. There are many denominations that claim they know the perfect formula on how to get god to save you. Go into any denomination and they will claim to have the ultimate translation, interpretation and understanding or gods word and yet they willall differ. The truth is that no one understands completely. Who can understand the mind of god? No one can. All we can do is obey gods laws the bwst that we can. Ask forgivess and repent where we fail. Pray that god will have mercy is areas that we lacked understanding and continue to endure to the end. We only will know what the true desire of our heart was on judgement day and god will judge correctly.
Carrie J. I believe we can know with certainty our salvation. Jesus said the Holy Spirit will convince us of our sin, convince us of the righteousness of Christ in forgiving us our sins and will convince us the devil is judged and condemned.
Far to often I see Christians walking in condemnation of doubt and fear. If Christ says we are forgiven, then we are forgiven indeed.
We need our hearts warmed to this by the Holy Spirit of God, who convinces us of the truth. We need the empowering of the Holy Spirit to tell the devil and his lies to rack off. And we need the continual infilling and presence of the Holy Spirit to enable us to live as he would have us.
Antonius an Carrie J,
The apostle John certainly believed we can know that we are saved. He said, And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. I John 5:11-13
We have been given the promise of salvation through His death. With faith, we believe in that promise. However, as Jesus has told us through many of His parables it is not something we can be complacent about. The parables of the Ten virgins and the parable of the unforgiving servant teach us that IF we don’t continue to abide in Christ, we CAN lose our salvation. Even Paul tells us so in Romans 11.
For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. (Romans 11:21, 22 NKJV)
Paul says that we CAN be CUT OFF!!
So don’t let your guard down and think that you have been already saved. Complacency is what satan wants you to be. This allows his many temptations to creep in. Just leave your salvation to Jesus by continuing to abide in Him!
Greg – that was really funny. Good laugh.
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Let’s take a close look at Jesus’ methods of persuasion:
He never condemned.
John: 3:17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John: 8:10: When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
John:8:11: She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
He never enticed
John:6:26: “Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. You only follow me for the loaves and fishes,” he said.
Matthew13:58: “And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.”
He never made discipleship easy.
Luke 19:16-30: To the Rich Young Ruler, he said, “Sale all you have and give to the poor, if you want to follow me.”
He never coerced:
Luke 9:52: “And [he] sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. 53: And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. 54: And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? 55: But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. 56: For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.”