We’ve seen them in all manner of places—on street corners, in parking lots, at craft fairs, outside stadiums. Sometimes they’re on wearing placards, admonishing hearers to “turn or burn.” Or perhaps they’re warning America of coming judgment and doom. Others may prefer challenging individual “sinners” on the street, exposing them to their failure to live up to the Ten Commandments.  A common justification from those “witnessing” is: “You need to tell people the bad news before they can listen to the good news.” After all, isn’t the Law a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ (Galatians 3:24)? Isn’t this the reality of Romans 1-3?

My friend Robertson McQuilkin has frequently said, “It is easier to go to a consistent extreme than to stay at the center of biblical tension.”  I think that the “bad-news-first bears” (J) may serve as an example of this extreme.  The point is that we should be careful about making hard-and-fast formulas (or, if you like, formulae) about communicating Christ to others. A wider read of Scripture presents a mixed bag; it isn’t a formula—indeed, a “uniformula”—announcing first, “you’re a sinner” and only then “there is a Savior.” I’m not denying hell, judgment, sin, or the need for repentance. Jesus saved his harshest message of judgment for the hard-hearted religious leaders of his day (e.g., Matthew 23), and he called on his hearers to turn/repent and align themselves with God’s kingdom agenda.  

That said, Jesus had the strong reputation of being a “friend of sinners.” He reached out to the “unlikelies” of his day—those who, according to the religious authorities, were unlikely recipients of God’s kingdom blessings:  tax gatherers, prostitutes, Gentiles, lepers, the ceremonially unclean, the demonized.  Jesus let them know that God hadn’t forgotten them, that God was interested in them. Jesus illustrated the point that people need to know you genuinely like them and take an interest in them if your message is to get through to them. 

How many of those preaching divine judgment in our day do so with tears in their eyes (Philippians 3:18)?  How many of them have the reputation of being “friends of sinners”?  How many of them truly follow in the way of the Master?  It’s a lot easier to preach a message of judgment than to exemplify Jesus, who actually got involved in the lives of others. As David Kinnaman shows in his book unChristian (Baker), the unchurched are under the general impression that they are the “project” of the professing Christian.  Most of them come away from “witnessing” encounters with the impression that Christians—however well-meaning— are also legalistic and arrogant or superior-minded.  By contrast, the incarnate Christ had earned a right to be heard by paying the price of friendship with “outsiders.” Unfortunately, many of the law-first-grace-later messengers don’t exude a friend-of-sinners demeanor.

It seems that we should be careful about a formulaic method of communicating the good news.  After all, helping people connect with Christ is more a process than it is an event. This process includes friendship, the integrity of Christian character, a loving community, and time process the implications of Christ’s Lordship. (See Greg Boyd’s Letters from a Skeptic [Victor] that nicely illustrates the process—even if you or I may not agree with all of Boyd’s arguments.)

So let’s explore whether we must follow the bad-news-first method—or if there’s more to consider. This is one of my longer pieces; so hang in there with me!

First, people will at some point need to be aware of the bad news, but are we the ones who have to bring this up?  Too often we don’t even know where people are coming from.  Perhaps they’ve been burned by the church or certain professing Christians, and they may even have a visceral reaction to the term “Christian.”  Donald Miller puts it well in his Blue Like Jazz:

In a recent radio interview I was sternly asked by the host, who did not consider himself a Christian, to defend Christianity. I told him that I couldn’t do it, and moreover, that I didn’t want to do defend the term. He asked me if I was a Christian and I told him yes. “Then why don’t you want to defend Christianity?” he asked, confused. I told him I no longer knew what the term meant. Of the hundreds of thousands of people listening to his show that day, some of them had terrible experiences with Christianity, they may have been yelled at by a teacher in a Christian school, abused by a minister, or browbeaten by a Christian parent. To them, the term Christianity meant something that no Christian I know would defend. By fortifying the term, I am only making them more and more angry. I won’t do it. Stop ten people on the street and ask them what they think of when they hear the word Christianity and they will give you ten different answers. How can I defend a term that means ten different things to ten different people? I told the radio show host that I would rather talk about Jesus and how I came to believe that Jesus exists and that he likes me. The host looked back at me with tears in his eyes. When we were done, he asked me if we could go get lunch together. He told me how much he didn’t like Christianity but how he had always wanted to believe Jesus was the Son of God (Blue Like Jazz [Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 2003], 115).

We may come in as spiritual storm-troopers rather than being “quick to listen and slow to speak.”  Yet in 1 Peter 3, Peter exhorts wives of unbelieving husbands to focus on the way they live their lives—quietly, gently, virtuously—so that their husbands may be won without a word even though they didn’t believe the word of God (3:1).  A virtuous life is a very attractive thing, and such a life may create a spiritual and moral longing in those previously disinterested in Christ—and this without a single word about anything, let alone sin!

Second, I have met plenty of “the encountered” who report that those “witnessing” about the bad-news-first commonly come across sounding judgmental, legalistic, and morally-superior, arrogant, and so on. Yes, rebels against God love darkness rather than light.  But our focal point ought not be a guilt-finding mission. Our consciously taking on Paul’s chief-of-sinners title would go a long way in building bridges.

Third, like the prodigal son, most people already know they carry shame or guilt and are looking for relief, hope, acceptance, and friendship. As Romans 2:4 reminds us, it is the kindness of God that leads to repentance. Christian sociologist Rodney Stark comments: “Hell fire-and-brimstone sermons to the contrary, people respond far more strongly religiously to a carrot than to a stick.  This has long been recognized by missionaries.” Stark ends his comments with the quotation from John 3:16-17: “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved” (Rodney Stark, What Americans Really Believe [Waco, TX: Baylor University Press, 2008], 78). 

Fourth, certain contemporary evangelistic methods in America would be deemed culturally insensitive in non-American contexts. Think of how missionaries are often taking years to learn a particular culture. Even once they have learned a foreign language, they still need to understand how the gospel connects to the culture and to the felt needs of people.   For example, Muslims tend not to feel guilty (which is assumed by many American evangelistic methods), but dirty, defiled, fearful, and often full of shame; so the string of stories in Mark 5 of Jesus’ authority over impurity, demonic powers, and death resonate with Muslims (see Nabeel Jabbour’s The Crescent Through the Eyes of the Cross [NavPress]). Yet well-meaning American Christians often don’t take time to contextualize the gospel when speaking with non-Christians.  They assume a ready connection exists between the non-Christian and the biblical worldview; this is, after all, “Christian America,” right? Even in 1913, J. Gresham Machen pointed out that caricatures and bad philosophies often prevent people from taking “sin” and the call to “repent” seriously. 

God usually exerts that power in connection with certain prior conditions of the human mind, and it should be ours to create, so far as we can, with the help of God, those favorable conditions for the reception of the gospel.  False ideas are the greatest obstacles to the reception of the gospel.  We may preach with all the fervor of a reformer and yet succeed only in winning a straggler here and there, if we permit the whole collective thought of the nation or of the world to be controlled by ideas which, by the resistless force of logic, prevent Christianity from being regarded as anything more than a harmless delusion. (Christianity and Culture,” Princeton Theological Review 11 [1913]: 7.

The gospel will not instantly make sense for people who have a completely different worldview. (Consider the momentous response to pre-evangelized Jews at Pentecost in Acts 2 with the lesser response of pagans in Athens in Acts 17.)

Fifth, how many of us came to trust in Christ because a stranger told us that we were sinners? Or did we come through friends or relatives who modeled an attractive, redeemed Christian life? The drumbeat of statistics over the years reveals that 75-90% of those who have come to Christ and faithfully continue in their discipleship were introduced to the Christian faith through believing friends and relatives; this personal connection to the gospel came through love, acceptance, and a modeling of the Christian faith. (For example, Win and Charles Arn, The Master’s Plan for Making Disciples [Pasadena: Church Growth Press, 1982], 43).

Sixth, the idea that “this may be the non-Christian’s only chance to hear the gospel and she may not hear it again” often turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Becky Pippert observes that Christians and non-Christians have one thing in common; they’re both uptight about evangelism! That is, we may actually create an awkward, confrontational situation (I’ve done this before!), and the non-Christian is put off by it all.  As a result, the non-Christian doesn’t want to hear “the gospel” (or “whatever that was!”) again. Sometimes well-meaning Christians tend to take the entire burden of another’s salvation upon their shoulders and fail to trust in a sovereign God who may use us to be a stepping stone in another’s life.  In John 4, Jesus reminded his disciples that they were “reaping,” thanks to the faithful labors of others who had gone before them.

Seventh, the “what if the person dies tomorrow?” question raises issues about our own view of God’s sovereignty. Keep in mind that while we are to be responsible witnesses, we mustn’t diminish God’s sovereignty on this score either. Will God put people into hell just because of our human failure (of the Christian witness)?  Too often the “what if he dies tomorrow?” idea can often creates a forced “witness” that, in my experience, creates relational (not spiritual) awkwardness and turns people off on any Christian witness for the longer term.  Relationships that respect the process, trust the Holy Spirit, and allow people time to think through the implications of the Christian faith are (statistically speaking) far more effective and long-lasting than the short-term, “I must tell him now or else” approach.

Those touched by Jesus knew that he first was genuinely interested in them. Perhaps that friend-of-sinners approach has something going for it!  The confrontational method diminishes the listening and unfolding process involved in evangelism. The gospel should be expressed in a holistic and relational manner.  Otherwise it more often than not appears to be a judgmental sales pitch. 

Eighth, Jesus and other authorities in the New Testament don’t necessarily bring up sin at the outset, and they may in fact first “dangle the benefits of salvation” before them! The Samaritan woman in John 4 first received an invitation to receive living water so that she would never thirst again. It was only toward the end of the conversation that her being a sinner came up—which was actually an incidental point that almost didn’t get brought up!

The same goes for Paul in Athens (Acts 17). Though angered at its idols, he calmly built bridges with the Athenians, quoting the Stoic thinkers they were familiar with.  Mention of repentance came only much later in the discussion.

Again, Jesus own missional message in Luke 4:18 (citing Isaiah 61:1) affirms benefits of salvation: Jesus came to preach good news to the poor, freedom for prisoners, release for the oppressed, and the year of the Lord’s favor.  Notice that Jesus even leaves off “the day of vengeance” from the original Isaiah quotation!

Another famous Isaiah quotation brings good news without mentioning the bad news:How lovely on the mountains are the feet of him who brings good news, who announces peace and brings good news of happiness, who announces salvation, and says to Zion, ‘Your God reigns!’  Listen! Your watchmen lift up their voices, they shout joyfully together; for they will see with their own eyes when the LORD restores Zion.  Break forth, shout joyfully together, you waste places of Jerusalem; for the LORD has comforted His people, He has redeemed Jerusalem” (Isaiah 52:7-9).

Ninth, in what ways can we build bridges with our postmodern peers?  Try “idolatry”! While conviction of sin is important, we must be careful not simply to “scold” the postmodern or the “apatheist” (who doesn’t care if God exists or not) for, say, inferior moral standards or mushy views of truth. Yes, premarital sex or sexual lust is wrong, but usually we won’t connect with our audience if we focus on “doing bad things.” Rather, a more effective, and very biblical, emphasis comes by exposing the human tendency to make good things into ultimate things.  Using the specific term “sinner” may not readily resonate with the postmodern, but the scriptural theme of “idolatry” often does.  Idolatry is, as Tim Keller puts it, “building your identity on anything other than God.”  So rather than coming across as scolding non-Christians, we should take this advice:  

Instead of telling them they are sinning because they are sleeping with their girlfriends or boyfriends, I tell them that they are sinning because they are looking to their romances to give their lives meaning, to justify and save them, to give them what they should be looking for from God. This idolatry leads to anxiety, obsessiveness, envy, and resentment. I have found that when you describe their lives in terms of idolatry, postmodern people do not give much resistance. Then Christ and his salvation can be presented not (at this point) so much as their only hope for forgiveness, but as their only hope for freedom. This is my ‘gospel for the uncircumcised.’ (Tim Keller, “The Gospel in All Its Forms,” Leadership Journal 29/2 [2008]: 15).

As a side note, as we grow in Christ, we will increasingly come to grips with the depths of our own sinfulness, which pales in comparison to any sin-detection going on around the time of our conversion.  At the outset of our Christian pilgrimage, we are often oblivious to sin except in the most basic ways.  Note what the famed preacher and theologian Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758) wrote about his own experience:

Often . . . I have had the very affecting views of my own sinfulness and vileness, very frequently to such a degree as to hold me in a kind of loud weeping, sometimes for a considerable time together, so that I have been often obliged to shut myself up….When others that have come to talk with me about their soul’s concerns have expressed the sense they have had of their wickedness, by saying that it seemed to them they were as bad as the devil himself; I thought their expressions seemed exceeding faint and feeble to represent my wickedness . . . . My wickedness, as I am in myself, has long appeared to me perfectly ineffable [i.e., inexpressible] and swallowing up all thought and imagination–like an infinite deluge, or mountains over my head. I know not how to express better what my sins appear to me to be, than by heaping infinite on infinite and multiplying infinite by infinite . . . .  When I look into my heart and take a view of my own wickedness, it looks like an abyss infinitely deeper than hell (Personal Narrative, Pt. XV).

Perhaps these reflections will give insight into more effectively helping others connect with the gospel. To reach people, we shouldn’t diminish the gravity of sin; rather, we should walk in the way of the Master, whose earthly ministry earned him the reputation of being a “friend of sinners.”  May the same be said of us redeemed sinners as well!


C Michael Patton
C Michael Patton

C. Michael Patton is the primary contributor to the Parchment and Pen/Credo Blog. He has been in ministry for nearly twenty years as a pastor, author, speaker, and blogger. Find him on Patreon Th.M. Dallas Theological Seminary (2001), president of Credo House Ministries and Credo Courses, author of Now that I'm a Christian (Crossway, 2014) Increase My Faith (Credo House, 2011), and The Theology Program (Reclaiming the Mind Ministries, 2001-2006), host of Theology Unplugged, and primary blogger here at Parchment and Pen. But, most importantly, husband to a beautiful wife and father to four awesome children. Michael is available for speaking engagements. Join his Patreon and support his ministry

    132 replies to "Do We Need to Tell People the Bad News Before the Good News?"

    • […] Copan at Parchment and Pen asks the question, do we have to tell the bad news before we tell them good news. 0 Comments Posted in Friday's Links, Uncategorized by […]

    • Paul Copan

      I should add one more comment here on TUAD. (Thanks for rushing to my defense, Susan!)

      I don’t prefer the term “proselytize” (too much baggage to unpack), but I prefer the New Testament term “persuade.” In any event, check out my book “True for You, But Not for Me” (2nd edition), which repudiates religious pluralism. The pluralist is an evangelist of sorts–except that he brings a destructive message. No, we’re not all blind men touching our part of the elephant. Thiis view is worse than “irrelephant” (!); it’s dangerous and wholly contrary to the gospel.

    • Susan

      Actually, Paul has probably shared the gospel with thousands by now….considering the multitudes who have read his books. I suppose he will be pleasantly surprised to meet many before-unseen converts (who came to Christ as a result of his many ministries) when we are in the New Heavens! And, I will unashamedly recommend Paul’s books! I have two: True for Me and When God Goes to Starbucks. I’ve never been an avid reader of apologetics but I do really appreciate the loving and thoughtful way that Paul puts things. And the interesting thing is, I’d no more than read part of one of those books and God landed me in two different conversations which were very much about the very topics I had just read. It was exciting to have something really substantive to say! I was able to share the gospel with the friend of a friend as a result.

      And, a kinder man you could not meet than Paul Copan! (whom I haven’t met face to face, but once had a hopping phone conversation with…..from CA to FL….and other interactions as well.

      And Paul, is the president of the Evangelical Philosophical Society (check out the website). Also worth noting…..I’ve gone to Paul’s own website a time or two in search of answers and articles.

      TUAD, sorry I didn’t understand where you were coming from with that article!

      Thanks for telling us more about your background, Paul. And, God bless you as you carry on with the good work!

    • Cornell

      All I wanted to add was that in presenting the Gospel to an unbeliever, you need NOT mention sin, bad, repentance, etc. If you say NOTHING MORE THAN “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will go to heaven,” that is all that is needed to ensure one will go to heaven.

      In other words, believing in JC to ensure one goes to heaven need not have any element of “being saved FROM something bad.” My experience was to TURN TO God, not away from anything, good or bad.

      Subsequently, I had a different view of God initially. God to me was a loving God who wanted me to spend eternity with him in heaven. [I was not repenting or turning from anything…] I am far from a Calvinist today, but I’m not sure I can definitely attribute that to the initial Gospel presentation and how I was told to think about God.

      Finally, I like to be reminded that the Holy Spirit takes whatever truth is presented at the time of the Gospel presentation and convinces the unbeliever of the truth of that particular presentation (GJOHN 16). If someone adds works to the Gospel presentation, we need not be too upset; the Holy Spirit only takes the truth of what was presented and convinces the unbeliever of that truth. To put it another way, the Gospel presentation is a God thing; man participates, but God makes sure the correct message is received by the unbeliever.

      CQ

    • Susan

      Cornell, I would have to say that I disagree strongly. Repentance and the recognition of one’s sinfulness is essential to true conversion. “God is apposed to the proud but gives grace to the humble.”….and the calls to repentance are proliferous in God’s word. But I will add that conviction over one’s sin is not a product of one’s own will, it is a work of the Holy Spirit in a person’s heart. My husband ‘believed’ in Jesus and His death and resurrection …and went forward in an evangelistic service…praying a prayer of acceptance 25+ years ago. After 21 years of marriage and never seeing the fruit of the spirit in him at all I had reason to doubt he was a true child of God. He was bearing bad fruit, not good fruit. He was full of wrath and anger. He attended church with me every Sunday and continued to assent to belief in Jesus, but certainly he was not submitting to the Lordship of Christ in any way. I prayed that God would help me to know, one-way-or-the-other, whether he was one of his true children. God answered that prayer, and made it apparent that he was not. I shared my doubts with my husband about his spiritual condition….amidst much prayer. He was surprised by my words and said, “What is different about you than me? I believe all of the same things you believe.” To make a long story short, he finally came to a point of humble conviction over his sin, realizing that he had not been living a life of obedience to Christ. This was the loving conviction of the Holy Spirit. So, it was about a year and a half ago that he came to a point of true conversion. Since then I have had the joy of seeing the transforming work of God’s Spirit in his life. He is beginning to have a new humility which I never saw in him before. He is expressing love for me and our children in ways he never did before. He is slowly but surely learning to trust God and experiencing the resulting peace which is a product of that etc.

    • Susan

      Every week I find myself noticing some new evidence of the indwelling Spirit which is the antithesis of who he was before his recent conversion. He truly is a new creature!

      Just last night I listened to a man tell his testimony. He explained that as an eight year old child he had gone up to the front of church and said, “Jesus, I want you to be my Savior.” (or similar words)

      He then told of the long and painful journey of his life of rebellion which began immediately after that—starting with befriending some really messed up kids. He later became completely addicted to drugs and his life was in total confusion. He found himself one day driving…but he couldn’t decide were to live (he’d been bouncing back and forth between relatives in different states). He said that he finally pulled off of the side of the road and said “God, I’m such a sinner! I’m sorry for my sin. Help me!”

      He described the instant change he felt…and how his life changed dramatically after that. To be honest, I think that he thinks his conversion happened when he was eight, but I very much suspect that he was not a true child of God until that night he pulled off of the road and was crushed with remorse over his sin.

      In Matt. 7:21-23 it says, “Not every one who says to me Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven. On that day, many will say to me, Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds? Then I will say to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you law breakers!”

      In the next few verses it describes the life of a true believer vs. someone who is not. Jesus says that the proof is in the pudding (so-to-speek). Those who obey Him are His, those who don’t are not his. It was in fact this passage of scripture which our pastor taught from the day my husband finally was convicted over his sin and ‘gave his life completely to Jesus’. July 2008, days before our 21st anniversary…

    • Jay Wingard

      Quoting Donald Miller and “Christian sociologists” really doesn’t help prove anything – it actually hurts if you ask me. 🙁

      Here is how I would look at it – with the percentage of professing believers being in the single digits who actively share their faith I am happy to hear of any and all true, Biblical methods of evangelism. When groups like Comfort’s “Way of the Master” do a fine job of equipping believers for evangelism my hat is off to them. I find absolutely nothing unbiblical about that particular technique and I see it as another excellent method among many others. I agree that it should not be made into a magic formula but it has gotten people out on the streets sharing the gospel.

      We have this tendency to continue to downplay sin and its heinousness. We need to remember that Christ came to die for our sin – not to make our lives better. As for “friendship” evangelism and hoping that someone will come to faith by simply watching your life doesn’t the Bible clearly say that faith comes by hearing the word of Christ? The whole gospel of Christ must be proclaimed – it must be heralded.

      I am simply ecstatic when I hear about Christians actively sharing their faith – whether it be through a method such as “Way of the Master” or simply through a dialogue with a dear friend. With something as critical as gospel proclamation I wouldn’t be so quick to discount those who follow “law to the proud, grace to the humble”.

      Just my two cents…

    • Richard

      “like the prodigal son, most people already know they carry shame or guilt and are looking for relief, hope, acceptance, and friendship.”

      No, they are looking for rationalization. They want for their sin to not be sin. They want to live their lives any way they please without consequences. That is human nature and I was once that way as were all believers.

    • Richard

      “Second, I have met plenty of “the encountered” who report that those “witnessing” about the bad-news-first commonly come across sounding judgmental, legalistic, and morally-superior, arrogant, and so on. ”

      You might as well have combined the second and third. This assertion that Christians come across as self-righteous is really a smokescreen.

      Example: When my sister asked my daughter about her ring, my daughter told her, “I am a Christian and I am committed to saving myself for marriage.” My daughter wasn’t even trying to get into a witnessing situation. She was answering a question. The way my sister reacted, you would have thought that my daughter had called her a shameless hussy. My sister was offended because she CHOSE to be offended.

    • Chuck

      Paul, thank you for your insightful and nuanced post on this matter. Much of it resonated with me due to my personal experience in coming to know the Lord.

      The most influential Christians in my life were unquestionably the couple of believers who befriended me in college. Developing friendships provided an environment where we could talk about difficult issues that required reflective thinking as I wrestled with the truth of the Gospel. Those friends provided me with both bad news (works do not earn one a ticket to Heaven, and the only thing I deserved from God was His wrath) as well as the Good News.

      Concurrent to this, there was a well-known campus preacher who had a “turn or burn” type of delivery to the message he preached. By and large, most students mocked and derided him, as did I early on in my college years. However, as the Lord opened my heart to hear and understand my utter depravity and need for a Savior, I began to really listen and give consideration to what he had to say.

      Also during this time, I had several encounters with Christians doing “cold turkey evangelism” for a campus fellowship. At the time, I had a vested self-interest in defending my partying lifestyle to them, and was extremely antagonistic in those encounters. Nevertheless, their questions and presentations of the Gospel left me thinking and wrestling with what I believed, and why.

      Having been a Christian now for many years, my perspective is that the Lord brought numerous believers into my life to nudge me towards Him through their various means of witnessing. And while it is true that those various means were not equal in weight of influence–the Christians who befriended me had the greatest impact–I would be remiss to not recognize and thank the Lord for all those believers who presented the gospel to me using their various approaches.

      To be continued…

    • Chuck

      Continued…

      I’m persuaded that we won’t truly know the quality and effect of our witness until we stand before our Lord, who will show us whether our works for Him were made of gold or straw. And as one who was blessed in his encounters with several styles, I do not wish to dissuade anyone from pursuing a style of evangelism that might differ from mine. Each approach has strengths and weaknesses unique to it, and I believe that the Church is enriched by such a diversity of evangelistic strategies.

      Yet remember that salvation is of the Lord. The most acerbic street preacher will not prevent the Lord from bringing a hearer to repentance; neither will the gentlest, most compassionate friendship soften a heart hardened and in rebellion against their Creator. While a believer may disqualify himself/herself from being used by the Lord if their witness is not in keeping with biblical commands and principles, it is the Lord who is at work in the hearts of men, to direct them as He wills.

      Paul, thanks again for your irenic spirit and thoughtful article. I have been blessed in the past by your ministry, and look forward to the same in the future.

      Cheers,
      Chuck

    • john r

      when will we realize that as believers do not evangelize one scintilla thru doctrine, but instead by christ’s love in us and thru us, thru grace.

      mother teresa was known to have told her nuns not to engage in religous discussions with those they brought in. she said…………………”dont talk about christ”…………….’instead be christ.”

      the greatest evangelizing message i ever heard was when cj paul spoke (evangelized) in a single speaking engagement. speaking to a million people. he said “if you are musilm, stay musilm, if you are hindu, stay hindu, if you are budddhist, stay buddhist, etc, just ask jesus who loves, to come into your heart and ask him to heal all your hurts, hatreds, and angers and ask his indwelling spirit to show you how much he loves you.”

    • Wayne in Frisco

      This is the worst thing I’ve ever read on P&P.

      It’s wrong on so many levels. First, 90+% of professing Christians never witness to anybody. the author is attacking (questioning) the methods of those who do, and instead, offers a different method while saying that we shouldn’t be focused on methods/formulae. Next, the author admits that he doesn’t know what the term “Christian” means anymore. That sound very post-modern or emergent and foolish. Not wanting to be identified with Christ is bad enough, but also being unwilling or unprepared to defend his faith – 1 Peter 3:15. Here, in a radio interview, is an opportunity to share the gospel of Christ in whatever manner he chooses, and he fails. That does not glorify God. The entire piece smacks of human free-will and that we can ease sinners into the kingdom so long as we don’t offend their delicate egos along the way. I didn’t get very far reading because the premises are all wrong.

      It angers me that a man unwilling to provide a witness has the audacity to condemn folks like Ray Comfort who are helping thousands of Christians to start following the great commission. I wonder if Copan has ever even watched an episode of The Way of The Master. Galations 3:24 is one place where we are reminded that the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Throughout the New Testament, you don’t find examples of the gospel being proclaimed without the law being expressed first, unless it was to Jews who already knew the law.

      The author misinterprets 1 Peter speaking about wives of unbelievers and tries to apply that elsewhere. This hardly equates to witnessing to strangers.

      Could some evangelists benefit from a change in attitude? Of course, but the church should be more worried about getting people to start witnessing than getting them to stop. Especially Copan who is unwilling to defend his faith publicly. Jesus “likes me”???

    • Wayne in Frisco

      I would beg anyone reading my previous comments to please, please listen to the message “Hell’s Best Kept Secret” here:
      http://www.livingwaters.com/

    • Jay Wingard

      Wayne – well said!

    • Tony Whittaker

      Great post. May I add a link to a key bit of research (similar studies have been published elsewhere:
      http://www.bridge-builders.net/current/howadults.php
      which demonstrates that the overwhelming majority of conversions took place over a 2-year period of time in the context of a relationship with a Christian. And many of them also started their journey due to some hurt or problem they were suffering in their lives. I have seen other figures mentioning that up to 50% of people finding God cite a life problem as starting them on their journey.

      Felt needs are biblical starting point:
      http://www.internetevangelismday.com/felt-needs.php

      Blessings

      Tony

    • Rev Tony Breeden

      I’m sorry, Paul, but you’re simply off-base this time, disappointingly so.

      As a Gospel preacher [not just a Creation evangelist], I have never been able to preach the Good News without first preaching the bad; in today’s culture, Christianity and its message have been distorted so that many misunderstandings have emerged. This is partly do to the media’s warped betrayal of Christians but also partly do to a trend within Christendom to soft-sell the Gospel in fuzzy terms that are essentially meaningless. We don’t like to mention the bad news, but it is essential.

      For example, some are under the impression that we go to heaven or hell based on whether the good we did outweighs the bad, rather than whether we accepted Christ Jesus’ payment for our sin. We have to tell them the bad news that they are sinners who are unable to remedy themselves before we can tell them te good news that god has provided a way of redemption.

      Again, I’m sorry but from a pragmatic and I daresay Biblical approach [I don’t agree with all of your analogies but I haven’t the time to comment on them now], we have to tell the bad news to provide context for the good news – and we dare not defer this responsibility to the World!

      Regards

    • Paul Copan

      PART I:

      Thanks to you all for your follow-up discussion.

      No one is denying that professing Christians ought to be more evangelistically-minded. As I said, I am grateful for people who are truly gifted at “cold-turkey’ evangelism, as others have also observed. (Not that all who try it are effective at it either! Some Christians are just wired/gifted differently.)

      Yet I have seen many people go through training of *The Way of the Master* and become even more discouraged about evangelism, as this appears to be the only way to “do evangelism,” and when they do it they create socially unnatural conversation. (Of course, in my experience, a minority do become genuinely effective at it.) I’ve corresponded with and talked to a number of *evangelistically-minded Christians* for whom this approach created unnecessary barriers. These people later came to realize that friendship, by God’s grace, can often eventually break down these down. I’ve instructed many Christians who don’t know where to begin with evangelism drawn to hospitality and friendship as a means of connecting people with the gospel. In my conversations with peple who have been through the Way of the Master training, most of them–certainly not all–have said that this more often than not created barriers and alienated non-Christians unnecessarily (the method, not the message). In the experience of these Christians, friendship helped create a context in which they earned the right to be heard, which otherwise would not have come. I’ve seen plenty of people so encouraged to know that God most often (not always) uses friendship to open people’s heart to the gospel. In my experience, insisting on the particular approach of Comfort as *the* way for all Christians will likely keep evangelizing Christians in the single digits. Most professing Christians two years after conversion have essentially removed themselves from non-Christian friends. This is tragic and is not the way of the Master…

    • Paul Copan

      PART II:

      And, yes, when Jesus showed himself to be a friend of sinners, people knew they were liked/loved and appreciated by Jesus. Friends like each other!
      Richard, I don’t understand your comment about the prodigal son. Surely, there are people who are “weary and heavy laden” who come to Jesus for rest! Surely there are those whose lives are without meaning who come to Jesus for an abundant life! God has already been at work in their lives. Comfort says as much when he talks about those who are already under conviction and realize their need. They’re ready what they don’t yet know! Also, you’re illustration about the purity ring doesn’t take away from my point. Yes, some people will be angered at anything that challenges their way of life.

      Jay, as I said, “all truth is God’s truth.” Again, Paul quoted Aratus and other Stoics without qualification!

      Tony, I gave examples of how Jesus and Paul talked about the good news without mentioning the bad. Again, my only point is that we should avoid being formulaic. And I have seen lonely people come to Christ because they needed a friend or purpose. Did repentance come? Yes, but it was this positive news that drew them.

      And for those who charge me with being postmodern or not engaged in evangelism (something which actually makes me chuckle!), you need to get out more! Read the entire blog interactions, and read my books!

    • Susan

      Wayne (and Jay, who agrees), I fail to see any humility in your response. You really should read the entire conversation following Paul’s initial post. You have misjudged him, and I think you would see Paul in a different light you spent a week with him. You are sort of doing the very thing you accuse Paul of doing….slamming someone’s suggestions about sharing the gospel, when as you say, so few Christians are actually out there sharing at all. Can we not be more encouraging and receptive? Paul is right, that we need to be sensitive to the person we are sharing with. Yes, it is important to talk about, “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God”, and “the wages of sin is death”, but it certainly isn’t essential to point out to a person that they have broken commandments at the outset of a conversation. I find that every conversation I ever have with a not-yet-saved person is different. Two variables guide me: God’s Spirit (as I am asking for His help) and secondly, I ask questions and listen to a person so that I can fine-tune to their particular understanding. When sharing the gospel there are definite essential truths which need to be part of the conversation, but It can be stilted…and even sometimes arrogant to insist on a one-size-fits-all formula. We do need to convey love. 1 Corinthians 13 comes to mind….

    • john r

      when we keep talking about methodology. we are ignoring the most important understanding of all, that anything wiithout love is NOTHING and gains NOTHING……………this applies to evangelism as well.1cor13

      years ago i participated in evangelism explosion…………………….we knocked on doors and followed kennedy’s book to the letter. i witnessed some miracles but i also witnessed some terrible abuses. the worse ones were attempting to brow beat people into making the confessors prayer out of fear tactics.

      why would we ever think that we can do the work of the spirit by using tactics that are not of the spirit, the fruit of the spirit………… love, joy, peace, kindness, patience, gentleness, self-control,faithfulness, and goodness.

      how can we possibly achieve anything that isnt thru the second commandment………….godlove your neighbor(love one another as i have loved you) as yourself.

      loving ones neighbor is honoring his life experiences and religious experiences.

      surely the method used on one will not be the method used on another……………………..like some kind of cookie cutter mentality. because it is the spirit that is doing the work, would not the spirit require one thing in one incidence and another in another incidence. if our direction is out of love how can we be married to methodology.

      most of the time when we returned to the houses where they had said the sinners prayer they treated us as if we had never been there.

      that being said i will have to say that there is something magjical about saying the sinners prayer, regardless of why the person says it. there appears to be an indwelling effect that remains permanent. to what degreee that effect is do not know.

      but romans10 makes the distinction of “believe in you heart”

      for me, knowing all this……………………………… requires that ill have to live with the tension.

    • john r

      instead of continuing to talk in the hypothetical consider sharing your actual experiences.

    • Rev Tony Breeden

      Honestly Paul, I have no intention of reading any of your books if you are this adamant about watering down the Gospel. For that is what you’re doing.

      You’ve equated giving the bad news that they’re a sinner with being condemning or judgmental. If we’re coming across as legalistic, morally superior or judgmental, that’s an attitude problem; we should all be saying to ourselves, “There but by the grace of God go I – and I might’ve been worse!”

      But you’re throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Our attitude and our message should both be correct – and our message includes the bad news.

      Having said that, I’m never formulaic, but bad news/good news isn’t a formula as there are a hundred thousand different ways to go about it. It is however a NECESSITY in today’s world that we tell them the bad news because those who are lost don’t always have the right perspective. In fact, as stated, their view of the whole thing tends to be skewed by the media and by ministers who’ve gone too far with this whole softsell approach. Unfortunately, I have to wonder now if you Paul are one of these guys I’m refering to.

      I should note that telling me I need to get out more is, well, laughable. I had a good nine years of foolish debauchery before this prodigal returned. I know what it’s like. I know what I was capable of. I know the importance of being authentically engaged with the person you’re ultimate trying to drag out a burning house. I know I’m not better than they are; I’m simply better off – and I want them to be where I am because of Christ.

      I think you’re ignoring the parts of the Bible that hurt your case, pointing out exceptions to the rule as if they invalidated the rule itself. I worry about the fact that you’ve dedicated good time and energy to encouraging folks not to mention the bad news.

      If your intent was simply to say we mustn’t be formulaic, you failed.

    • Pastorboy

      http://5ptsalt.com/2010/03/01/is-there-a-biblical-mandate-for-street-preaching/

      Here is a good link with an opposing, and biblical viewpoint.

    • Dan Powers

      Paul,

      First, I think that it is a great post/article. It really gets to the heart of one of the concerns that I have with the “Christian” community. It seems to be heading towards attitude of hate and superiority. The book *unChristian* points out how some people where being turned away from church because they were not the right type of person. This is a problem at the church leadership level, in theory those doing the evangelism or at least responsible for it in some way. What’s happening is the old song “Just as I Am” is being changed to “Only as We Want You”.

      I think that some of the “attitude” of the modern church stems from the impact that the culture is having on the church. A culture of mass consumerism that is based of the importance of self, greed, lust and envy. Skye Jethani in his book *The Divine Commodity* provide illustrations of how the culture has affected the church. It should be read by anyone in the ministry.

    • Bill Brown

      Tom Cruise in the movie “The Last Samurai” was asked by the emperor to tell him how the Samurai leader died. Tom, in his character, replied to the emperor that “I will tell you how he lived”….Let us be more faithful in telling people the Gospel story about how Christ came to this earth, lived, died and was resurrected that we might know the great and wonderful promise of salvation.

    • lucy

      Note from the moderator: Lucy please read the blog rules. You are free to disagree with the authors but please do so graciously and be respectful in your interaction. Thanks.

      Because you believe erroneously that people are basically good and that they have an Isle of Righteousness within them you portray Jesus as a buddy buddy to all men. Like He’s shooting hoops or shopping at the mall with us. Shame on you. You could be no further from the truth.
      In order for people to be saved and appreciate it they must know how dire their circumstances are. If they are not educated to their Total Depravity the gospel will mean nothing to them. Like today’s modern evangelicals who sugar coat God’s message to make it appeal to the masses. How do you take an offensive message and make it unoffensive? YOU DON’T!
      God’s message is an offense to sinners, it will always be an offense to sinners because it is only for the elect, those chosen to be in Christ before the foundation of the world. Eph. 1:4. If you can’t get this right from the git-go you should not be evangelizing. Go light some candles somewhere or pray to some Saint but don’t even try to consider yourself an Ambassordor for Christ.
      Jesus never worried about someone’s self esteem He was always right to the point and never tolerated anyone’s bad theology. He said, “I have come to call sinners to repentance”. God has set forth His terms of peace with man. They are non-negotiable. Jesus is Lord and has been set from God to save you. He is your only hope. Bow or die.
      Like it or not God always get the glory. The vessels of mercy will LIKE it, the vessels of wrath will explode into tantrums of rage. They will curse and scream and procalim “we will not have this man to reign over us.” So be it, says the Lord, depart from Me you wicked into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    • Michael T.

      “God’s message is an offense to sinners”

      Where does it say this? Galatians 5:11 says that the cross is an “offense”, but doesn’t say or even imply the “to sinners” in the language. The context of the this verse is Paul confronting the Judaizer’s who were claiming that circumcision was necessary for salvation. In this context the “offense” of the Cross was the offense caused to the Jews by claiming that sins were forgiven by a man who claimed to be God dying on a Cross and that the people who followed Jesus comprised “God’s People” not Israel. It had nothing to do with the offense caused by the street preacher to people by exposing their sin because the Jews (with the exception of some Pharisees) accepted that they were sinful and thus performed their many sacrifices and rituals to atone for that sin.

      The other verse which comes into play is 1 Corinthians 1:18 which describes the cross as “folly” to the perishing. Again there is an issue with this verse as the context here is addressing Gentiles. To the Gentiles crucifixion was the most despicable form of punishment there was, only the lowest of criminals received such a sentence. Thus to them it was complete madness to worship a crucified criminal as a God, much less the one and only God. Again the offense has nothing to do with the type of offense most people take to the Gospel today or that most street preachers cause

      For more info the best book ever written on the historical topic is probably Martin Hengel’s “Crucifixion in the Ancient World and the Folly of the Message of the Cross”

    • Paul Copan

      Susan, thanks for your attempts to clarify. I think a lot of what I’m saying is being misinterpreted, as you indicate. (At this rate, maybe we’ll get up to 300 comments!)

      Tony Whittaker, thanks for the corroboration. Shouldn’t Christians be attuned to the *process* of how people come to genuine faith? Feel free to use this post.

      Dan, excellent point on “Just As I Am.” We ignore the statistics at our own peril. The message of the book “unChristian” (which includes material from John Stott, Chuck Colson, and other orthodox evangelical leaders) is the sort of book being ignored by my critics in this post. I think we evangelicals are very poor at being “quick to listen and slow to speak.”

      Tony Breeden, you’ve missed what I’ve said earlier (and even Ray Comfort says this): If a person already knows he’s in need of salvation/grace/forgiveness, then we don’t need to “tell the bad news.” That’s already known. As I’ve indicated (though this seems to get ignored), people need to *know* they require outside assistance (grace) and forgiveness and to turn from a lifestyle of death (repentance). Of course. Are *we* the ones who must always tell them this? Not necessarily. Take this on a case-by-case basis. Do I talk about repentance *with everyone*? Not when people already know this. And at other times, our message (like Jesus in Luke 4 and John 3 and 4 and Paul in Acts 17) may *begin* with the proclamation of good news.

      Also (Tony B.), when I talked about “getting out more,” you missed the context: the charge of my being “postmodern” is simply false; if you knew what I’ve repeatedly written in my books, that would clear up the matter. So in this sense, you should get out more (i.e., look at the message of my books and see my clarifying comments in the blog post). However, I rejoice with you that God has delivered you from a life of bondage to sin.

      Once again, thanks to you all for interacting.

    • Truth Unites... and Divides

      I thought this post titled “Real Guilt and Sinfulness” was very good and has some applicability to when we obey the Great Commission.

    • Ed Kratz

      Hi Paul,

      I think Darrell Bock would with you. Here is the link to a recent DTS chapel message regarding the power of the good news.

      http://dts.edu/media/play/?MediaItemID=c180f9ec-7c6a-404d-89d9-b751ab84f19f

    • Wayne in Frisco

      I’ve given a lot of thought to my previous comments. Perhaps, as Susan said, I failed to show any humility. I have been accused of pride before and the accusations were true. My intent was not to be rude, but to demonstrate the error contained in the article. Maybe I should have phrased my comments differently, but I stand by the content. I did take her advice and finished reading the entire post. I found the remainder to be as poor as the introduction.

      We witness for several reasons. We want to see men come to a saving faith in Christ. We want to glorify God. We want to be obedient to the command to make disciples. Use of the law in witnessing helps to accomplish all of these. According to the author, we should be more interested in pragmatics and statistics than in what scripture tells us to do.

      The article concludes reminding us that Christ was a “friend of sinners”. Sadly, this is another verse ripped from it’s context and misapplied by the author. First, this accusation was leveled by those opposing Jesus. It was not offered as an honorary name, but used pejoratively. Second, Christ responds to the accusation by saying, “I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”. Christ is calling the people sinners. He is calling them to repentance. From what? Towards what? They can’t repent of sin unless they are informed of their sin. Could they be aware of it? Possibly. But, as someone who has had thousands of one-to-one witness encounters, I can tell you that almost all the people I’ve spoken to see themselves as “good”. This includes hundreds to whom I’ve witnessed in prisons, although, incarcerated inmates are slightly more willing to admit that they may have done something wrong. These same inmates are usually very well versed in the scriptures. Not so with most of the people I have met on the street or door-to-door.

    • Wayne in Frisco

      Dr. Kennedy’s EE focuses on sin before the gospel is presented. Yes, it mentions heaven before it talks about sin and it has a fairly light treatment of sin, but it is always law first, then the gospel. Bill Glass prison ministry uses a tract called “What do you think” and talks about sin before presenting the gospel. Even “The Four Spiritual Laws” talks about sin. Bill Bright, in his later years, lamented to Ray Comfort that he had been in error in his casual treatment of sin.

      As evangelists, we are not offering people a better life, but telling them about forgiveness of sins. How do you tell someone about Christ atonement for their sins if you shy away from talking about sins? This is foolishness.

      Friendship evangelism is bankrupt. Yes, we should evangelize our friends and we should be friendly to those to whom we witness, but we do not have to spend years building a relationship to “earn the right” to share our testimony. To build a friendship, we have to open up to people about those things that are big parts of our lives. You tell them about your kids, your family, your hobby, your work, but you hold out of Christ? That’s dishonest, unless, of course, Christ is not that big a part of your life. The longer you go as friends without telling them about Christ, the harder it gets to do it. You’ve got more at stake plus the fact that they will see you as insincere wondering why you never told them before if it’s really that big a deal to you. Do you make friends with someone before you save them from drowning?

    • Wayne in Frisco

      C. H. Spurgeon – “Lower the Law, and you dim the light by which man perceives his guilt. This is a very serious loss to the sinner, rather than a gain; for it lessens the likelihood of his conviction and conversion…I say you have deprived the gospel of its ablest auxiliary when you have set aside the Law. You have taken away from it the schoolmaster that is to bring men to Christ…they will never accept grace till they tremble before a just and holy Law. Therefore the Law serves a most necessary and blessed purpose and it must not be removed from its place.”

      Martin Luther – “The first duty of the Gospel preacher is to declare God’s Law and show the nature of sin, because it will act as a schoolmaster and bring him to everlasting life which is in Jesus Christ.”

      John Wesley – “Before I preach love, mercy and grace, I must preach sin, Law and judgment.” Wesley later advised a friend, “Preach 90 percent Law and 10 percent grace.”

      Charles Spurgeon – “They will never accept grace until they tremble before a just and holy Law.”

      Charles Finney – “Evermore the Law must prepare the way for the Gospel; to overlook this in instructing souls is almost certain to result in false hope, the introduction of a false standard of Christian experience, and to fill the church with false converts.”

      John Wycliffe – “The highest service to which a man may attain on earth is to preach the Law of God.”

      D.L. Moody – “God being a perfect God, had to give a perfect Law, and the Law was given not to save men, but to measure them.”

    • Wayne in Frisco

      And, since Jonathan Edwards is quoted as evidence to support the premise of this article, namely, that the law need not be proclaimed in witness encounters, here are Edwards’ own words to the contrary taken from “God Makes Men Sensible of Their Misery Before He Reveals His Mercy and Love”- “A wicked man, … he is capable of being made sensible of that terrible majesty and greatness of God, which was discovered at the giving of the law. But this brings me to the third, thing, viz. the principal outward means, which the Spirit of God makes use of in this work of convincing men of their desert of hell. And that is the law. The Spirit of God in all his work upon the souls of men, works by his Word. And in this whole work of conviction of sin, that part of the word is principally made use of; viz. the Law. It is the law which makes men sensible of their sin; and it is the law, attended with its awful threatenings and curses, which gives a sense of the awful greatness, the authority, the power, the jealousy of God. Wicked men are made sensible of the tremendous greatness of God, as it were, in the same manner in which the children of Israel were, viz. by the thunders, and earthquake, and devouring fire, and sound of the trumpet, and terrible voice at mount Sinai. All the people who were in the camp trembled, and they said, “Let not God speak with us, lest we die.” So that it is the law, which God makes use of in assisting the natural conscience to do its work. Gal. 3:24, “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.” It is the law which God makes use of, to make men sensible of their guilt, and to stop their mouths. Rom. 3:19, “Now we know that whatsoever things the law saith, it saith to them that are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.” It is the law, which kills men as to trusting in trusting in their own righteousness….”

    • Susan

      Lisa, I couldn’t get Bock’s message to play.

    • Ed Kratz

      Susan, that’s strange I just tested the link and it worked. Having listened to the first part of it again just now, I think Bock is definitely supporting what Paul is saying.

      Try this. Go to DTS main page http://dts.edu/ and you’ll see the chapel video section towards the bottom of the page. Then click on Bock’s.

    • Paul Copan

      Thanks to you all for your comments. It’s been good to interact and to clarify matters for all of us.

      I listened to the Bock piece. He hits the nail on the head. Focusing on the bad-news-first message without variation has left many non-Christians in our culture with the impression that there isn’t much good news or power or life in our message. Bock nicely makes this point: “Paul is jazzed about the gospel not because it’s a transaction….When we offer the gospel as a transaction, as the check of a box, people check the box and say, ‘I’ve done the important thing,’ and they risk walking away.”

      He observes that the gospel message as it is typically proclaimed is truncated and far from holistic (“If you were to die tonight”—a great way to start a conversation!—“why should God let you into his heaven?”). Christ came to usher in a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17) and to bring abundant life (John 10:10) and to empower us to truly live in this world of sin, oppression, shame, bondage, and death (Romans 1:16).

      Also, even if Wesley, Edwards, Luther, et al. focus on law first and then salvation (bad news-good news), this still doesn’t exclude the point that I make about how Jesus and Paul commonly address felt needs (Nicodemus, the Samaritan woman, Zacchaeus). Jesus is calling people who are hungry, who thirst, and who need rest–without necessarily attaching repentance to this (the assumption is that people to some degree already sense their need). Even Jesus and the apostles’ healing ministry and exorcisms are living displays of felt needs first relieved by Christ’s power; then repentance and salvation come later. Craig Blomberg has argued elsewhere (in *Jesus of Nazareth: Lord and Christ”, ed. Max Turner and Joel Green [Eerdmans]), the phrase “your faith has made you whole” implies, first, a physical restoration and then a spiritual restoration.

      To be continued…..

    • Paul Copan

      As mentioned earlier in the discussion, the Bridge Builders website has good statistical information on the place of friendship and addressing felt needs as a door for the gospel. We shouldn’t ignore statistics–especially when we see felt needs being constantly addressed in the New Testament. This hardly excludes repentance.

      I have been asked by someone to re-post my essay/blog post elsewhere. So I have taken into account all of your comments and have smoothed out and expanded on what I wrote earlier. I have also clarified the following: those in the always-mention-sin-first group vary in their approaches (placard-bearing screamers aren’t on the same level as those who do so in a less- or even non-abrasive way); God uses all kinds, even the most socially-abrasive (though not recommended!); because of the non-Christian’s awareness of sin or spiritual need, repentance doesn’t have to be mentioned (Comfort and Cameron make this point, with which I agree, but that seems to have been lost on those insisting that one must still call for repentance); etc.

      So thanks to you all for a great conversation, which has gotten rather long. Once the other link is up, I’ll re-direct you to it.

    • Susan

      I just listened to Bock. I love the way he brings out what the ‘power’ of the Gospel is: The life-changing power of the Holy Spirit invading a person’s life …..empowering and enabling……God’s Spirit working on me from within, creating in me a heart that says ‘Abba Father’ (a sense of adoption)….creating in me the ability to walk with the living God. The good news is not just that we can be forgiven, but that we can have a wonderful, intimate relationship with our creator. We can have new life here and now!

      TUAD, I followed your link and posted there.

    • Truth Unites... and Divides

      “TUAD, I followed your link and posted there.”

      Susan,

      What do you think of “Anonymous’s” comment near the end of the thread?

      There was and is so much emotional pain there. I don’t even know what to say.

    • JohnO

      TU..AD,
      I realise you asked this of Susan, but I read it and felt compelled to reply. This is more aimed at other commenters though – why would you even think to begin with the bad news when speaking to ‘anonymous’? They know the bad news; it’s hurting them. They don’t need beaten down any more. They need lifted up into God’s love, surely?
      Now, I suppose that, in a sense, it has already started with the bad news. It’s how they got to where they are, arguably. But I’m not so sure it’s as clear cut as that. What they are sensing is a lack of ‘worth’ through worldly things and a need to be valued in some other way. I’m not convinced that telling them how ‘rotten’ they are achieves anything in this instance. Affirming their worth in God’s eyes must be the starting point.
      Unless, of course, you are convinced that they are definitely not one of the elect and so it is futile anyway.

    • Truth Unites... and Divides

      “This is more aimed at other commenters though…”

      I shall step aside and let you continue to aim at other commenters.

    • Susan

      TUAD, I responded to anonymous on that thread. There were some good testimonies posted before me.

      Paul, maybe you could take a peek at that. I think you could help that commenter: Link in post #80
      The person’s heartfelt comment is near the end of the comments there.

    • Truth Unites... and Divides

      Dear Susan,

      I thought your comment to “anonymous” was pastoral and loving truth-telling.

      “If you come to God in pride…demanding that He do things your way, you will never know Him. If you get down on your knees and cry out to Him that you KNOW that you are a wretched sinner and ask for His mercy he will give it to you. Sometimes God lets us get to the end of our own rope so that we have to face what we really are before we can come to Him. You have become hard-hearted, by your own admission. Humble yourself completely before Him. He loves you. He wants you to know Him as an adopted son. He wants you to experience the joys of life in Him. The evidence of this is within the words you have written. He is not far from you!

      Praying now, Susan”

      Thanks for sharing, Susan.

    • Susan

      TUAD, you are a cut-n-paste super-freek! Thanks for the encouraging words.

      Lisa my dear, I spotted you sitting there in chapel…in that video you linked to! Did you know that you’re in it? You appear, like and angel, toward the end (3.00) 😉

    • Ed Kratz

      Susan, that’s so wild. I was actually sitting towards the back so I’m surprised the camera went back that far.

    • Susan

      At least they didn’t catch you sleeping back there!

    • rob

      I hear you AND let’s tell the whole truth. We do not need to beat a sinner over the head with sin….they know it AND we need to remind them appropriately the consequences of acceptance & rejection of Christ.
      Rodney Stark quotes Jn 3:16-17 but 18 tells us to reject Christ means a person has condemned themselves. THis IS a hard truth but it is the truth. We tell not the whole truth , we lie, if we do not balance the bad w/ the good. The joel osteen approach seems to be jovial & no regard for the whole truth about Christ. The evangelical may seem too in your face, & it it shouldn’t be, if grace does not balance out unrighteousness.

    • Wayne in Frisco

      Just wondering if anyone heard Ray Comfort being interviewed about this post yesterday? It was on Wretched Radio and it can be heard online from now until 3PM EDT Monday.

      http://www.wretchedradio.com/mediaplayer.cfm

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