I have been in a conversation recently about doubt. Most specifically, the question that has risen is, “Can a true Christian doubt God at the most fundamental level.” A girl just wrote to me and said that she often envies Christians who don’t ever doubt. I told her that there is really no such thing. All people doubt!
Let me be clear (for this is something that many people would disagree with me on): I don’t think that belief should ever be conceived of as “black and white.” No, don’t go there. I am not talking about some form of relativism with regard to the nature of truth (i.e. there is no such thing as truth). What I am saying is that people vary with regard to the strength of their beliefs. And I am saying that this can vary from time to time. Belief can go up and down. In other words, belief is not something that you either have or you don’t.
I have already revealed my proposition (i.e. a truly born again believer can doubt). Let me define “fundamental level.” What I mean is that a Christian can doubt to such a degree that they even doubt the very existence of God. Yes, I am assuming that you have done the same. I have and sometimes still do.
Where did this come from? I had a different conversation today when a lady, whom no one would ever expect, came to me in confidence expressing her inner pain. “I have recently been doubting the existence of God,” she told me with much trepidation. I think that she was most surprised that I was not surprised (well, maybe a little).
A dictionary definition of a straight line is “the shortest path between two points.” The definition of doubt, at least from one perspective, is the line that bridges our faith and perfect faith. I am under the assumption that no one has perfect faith. If this is true, then everyone’s faith is lacking in some respect. This lack will take on different forms for different people and different circumstances. Sometimes it will show itself though particular habitual sins. Sometimes it is our own pride. Many times it takes the form of doubt at our most fundamental levels.
I don’t believe that this is wrong. Let me step back and rephrase. In a fallen world with fallen people—and Christians who are still battling the flesh—should we expect anything else? Do you really believe that once you become a Christian doubt is no longer a foe? So it is wrong only in the sense that living in a fallen world is wrong. It is bad to the degree that being a resurrection short of full redemption is bad.
These are the words of another who sent me an email today (it has been a day full of this issue for some reason): “I lived for so many years doubting as religion was crammed down my throat, and watched those very same people live in hatred and judgement…now I know that Christ is not about rituals, dogma, and I was so relieved to find out it was OK to question…I just didn’t know what I didn’t know.”
I can’t read too much into this, but my assumption is that many people, like the one above, are afraid to make a commitment because they have worked under the unfounded assumption that our faith must be perfect. J.P. Moreland once said if someone believes 51% and disbelieves 49%, they are a believer in that which holds the greatest percent.
Do Christians doubt? Of course we do. But this does not mean we don’t believe. You may be at 63%, 95%, or 51%, but know that your ability to rise above 50% is of the Lord. He is with you and will hold you tight. Doubt is a necessary by-product of imperfection. It is a necessary evil that accompanies us on our road to belief.
338 replies to "Can Christians Doubt?"
Vinod, you are not from the U.S. correct? Peace out is a phrase we use to indicate when we’re done, which means I have nothing further to say on the topic.
Perhaps one of my brothers or sisters here would like to address your rendering of John 10 and possibly what does my sheep hear my voice mean.
But I have more pressing and fruitful endeavors at hand. I am done. Take care.
Hi Wm,
Yes salvation needs 100% faith and 0% doubt. But a person doesn’t reach there overnight. Faith grows and reaches there that’s why Jesus said about seed parable.
Sower sows the seed. Another waters the seed. And then seed sprouts and it grows and when it is ready for harvest that is the time a person commits his life.
I remember Billy Graham saying that the person who received Christ in his crusade somebody even a lot of people have done the hard work in the background already and what they see in crusade is just the harvest.
Thanks Lisa for letting me know that peace out means “we are done”. I was thinking that your peace has gone out somewhere. 🙂 just kidding.
Anyway I hope you will think and will search for a context for Eph 2:8 and also think about John 10.
I also hope that you will try to read the Word of God more instead of depending on scholors. Sometimes we need to empty ourselves from the wrong things you have learned before to see the truth.
But Jesus never said anything like “why did you not increase your faith?” What he actually said was simply an observation on the amount of faith the person had — no faith, little faith, great faith.
That actually seems to tell us that “no doubt” isn’t part of having great faith; it’s an additional requirement — if it were part of a great faith, the requisite faith wouldn’t be compared to a seed elsewhere described as tiny, but to the mature tree. It seems to me that Christ’s actual point is to tell the apostles that the size of faith isn’t what gets the results. Can you actually demonstrate from the text that this is unreasonable?
Can you paraphrase his statement so that it’s less allusive, then? Wouldn’t such a paraphrase look as follows: “If you have faith as _the kingdom of God_, you can say…” Christ’s didn’t define the mustard seed as “something that grows”; he defined it as being like the Kingdom of God.
But that’s what it’s actually saying, if you actually look at the _words_. Can you come up with a reason why that doesn’t make sense?
Christ is not contrasting faith with doubt, though; he’s contrasting faith with _unbelief_. Those are opposites; doubt is something different.
-Wm
The Bible never says or implies that.
So when Peter gave his Pentecost sermon, or his sermon to the gentiles, were the converts false, and they needed more time to reach 100% faith? For that matter, did Peter word his call wrongly when he told them to repent and believe — should he have asked them to think about it, mull it over, and he’d speak to them again in a short while?
It _seems_ that these people “reached there” in less time than overnight. And I don’t see Paul, ever after, talking to them and telling them otherwise. John even tells some that anyone who left was never actually among us (1 John 2:19) — and that all we have to do was to keep that which we had heard from the beginning.
I think you’re confusing the Parable of the Sower with the times Paul disclaimed credit for peoples’ salvations. (Or perhaps you’re just making your own analogy, in which case I apologize; you’re entitled to do that.)
But this is interesting; you’re also claiming that at the point you commit your life, you have 100% faith and 0% doubt. Is that an accurate reading on my part, or am I jumping to conclusions?
Paul said something similar once; he was even more humble, since not only did he give credit to his fellow missionaries, he gave all the credit for the harvest to God. (Not that I’m saying Graham is being prideful here — he’s no doubt thinking of Christ’s call for workers for the harvest.)
-Wm
As I mentioned that Jesus said to His desciples like “Why are you fearful”, “Why did you doubt” etc.
That tells me fear and doubt are ooposite to faith. So those questions are equal to “Why didn’t you increase your faith”. I know you will dispute it because you can’t find word “increase” there. But when you look at the context and mustard seed parable that’s what it means. Because to reach from where they are to a situation of “no doubt” they need to grow in their faith.
Why you have difficulty understanding is because you learned it from child hood that size of faith doesn’t matter.
“no faith”, “little faith”, “great faith” are all sizes of faith and according to Jesus they matter. “no faith” and “little faith” are no good.
That itself tells that Jesus didn’t mean that even if you have little faith you can move mountain. Instead He said if you have faith “as” mustard seed. If faith as mustard seed meant to be small faith then according to Jesus it is no good. He already rebuked disciples for their “little faith”.
Mark 4:31 “It is like a mustard seed which, when it is sown on the ground, is smaller than all the seeds on earth;
Mark 4:32 “but when it is sown, it grows up and becomes greater than all herbs, and shoots out large branches, so that the birds of the air may nest under its shade.”
look at “like a mustard seed” it is equal to “as mustard seed”. So from Mark 4:32 which gives definition of “as mustard seed” it is clear that Jesus was talking about three things.
1.) it is small
2.) but it grows
3.) it outgrows and becomes huge
Same applies to “as mustard seed” of faith.
I can’t understand why you have difficulty making that connection.
Also you are trying to read your interpretation into it. I don’t see “small faith is enough” all I see is “faith as mustard seed”. And definition of it is in Mark 4:32.
Size of faith does matter according to all the verses I quoted so far.
Vinod, how about your faith? Have you thrown any mountains into the sea lately? Or caused any fig trees to wither?
Jesus said that if you have no doubt you can do those things.
He said “If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”
I’d like to see an end to the regime in North Korea, which executes believers. But I have doubts, so can you take care of that for me?
Hi Wm,
Yes I agree that Bible doesn’t say 100% faith and 0% doubt for salvation but according to Rom 14:23 and James 1:6-7 doubt is opposite of faith and it is even sin. James goes even to say that don’t exect to receive anything.
Rom 14:23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.
James 1:6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind.
James 1:7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord;
James 1:8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
And We are saved through faith Eph 2:8.
When Peter gave his Pentecost sermon, or his sermon to the gentiles it is posible that those people had heard Jesus before. Jesus has been preaching for 3 and half years. It is possible that they believed immediately. Because they had just witnessed the pouring of the Holy Spirit. Some times a visual demonstration is more powerful to draw people to belief.
But yes they were genuinely saved and they grew in the Lord togather. I can’t doubt it. But I can’t say that they heard for the first time.
My focus was not who gets the credit but my focus was that seed is sowed and watered and harvested the process can take time. Because faith comes by hearing and hearing from the Word of God. Every time you hear from the Word it increases your faith. When you reach to the threshold to be ready you accept the Lord.
Hi Dave Z,
That is a way to make fun of the Word of God. Either you believe the Words of Jesus or you don’t that’s your choice, but I want to let you know that God is mocked.
If you mock God today. God will laugh at you one day. That will not be pleasent.
What is faith? Does faithul man ever question God? Does a faithful man ever lament?
I would say that only a faithful man can lament to God and one who does not does not have faith. I will cite Jesus as my Biblical example although David is a good one also.
Also what is doubt? Is doubt just one thing or could there be different kinds of doubt? Could there be bad doubt and okay doubt? Is it doubting God to say “I do not know why you are putting me through this but I will trust you” ?
I am a hospital chaplain and I have to correct many who act like one has to be happy all the time to be a Christian. So many Christians come into the hospital and are so afraid to cry out to God. They feel to have faith they must be okay and happy that they are about to die or that they are suffering. Where they find this in the Bible I do not know? I will have to go look at the lamentign pslams again or maybe Jesus in the garden of Gesthame. Maybe that will help.
I think faith is a walk with God through your life in which God the Father, Son, and Spirit are a part of and touch all parts of your life. It is not “I am happy with you God” 24 hours a day. It is struggling with God. Like Jacob it is a wrestling with God. It is making God part of everything you. Even if I doubt his existence it is keeping him in the middle of that also.
For instance I see many patient who are very angry at God because they or a loved one (even worse) is sick. It is not their lack of faith that produces their anger. One must have great faith to be angry at God (Not that I am saying that we should all try to be angry at God). What I think is important is to be honest and real with Him. To walk with Him as Enoch did. To get our feet dusty and to get tired and sad and happy with him.
Your reading of Eph 2:8 there is not unknown — the preposition could certainly be referring to the context in general rather than to the word “faith”. That’s possible, so it will have to be judged in context.
But in context, before we were saved we were “dead”, and “children of wrath, indulging the desires of the flesh and the mind”; then all of a sudden, “even though we were dead, made us alive”. What made that change in us? Was it our own desire for God? No, because our desires were as described before. Was it our own faith? No; how could faith, which is conditioned on desiring the rewards God gives to “those who diligently seek him”, be present in a “dead” “child of wrath”?
Something happened, and Paul describes it: God “made us alive together with Christ.” God didn’t wait for our faith, because if he had, we’d still be as much children of wrath and as dead as we were in verse 1. After God quickened us, He didn’t wait for further assent or understanding; He “raised us up with Him and seated us in the heavenly realms…”. He did this graciously (which means of his own free will), not out of obligation because their faith earned it.
So even if you don’t make “faith” the direct gift of God, its presence in us is due to the gift of God, and is part of the gift of God that constitutes our salvation. And remember, whatever that gift is, NONE of is something we get by our own effort, “lest any man should boast.”
Also John 6:37 and surrounding.
But this passage says that everyone who is thus “drawn” will come to Jesus, and anyone who isn’t drawn won’t come, and everyone who’s drawn will be raised up on the last day! Regardless of what “drawn” means precisely, the meaning of this is clear: _everyone_ who gets drawn is given salvation and resurrection on the last day; there’s no allowing for even one of them refusing that.
And Paul acted and believed not because he was a good man, but because the Holy Spirit drew him.
Pharaoh got “knocked off his horse” too, and he didn’t believe because he was appointed to wrath.
The gentiles who heard Paul’s sermon to them some believed and some didn’t. How does Luke record the difference? “As many as had been appointed unto eternal life…
I believe I see your point Michael. First, let me say that I respect you highly for coming clean that you struggle with doubt sometimes, even doubting the existence of God. We ministers and leaders need to admit that we have the same struggles, fears , and doubts as those who are not called to preach.
We live in a sin cursed, fallen creation, and we ourselves have the seed of sin, rebellion and all that is anti-God dwelling within us…so it is no wonder we struggle with doubt.
What did the man say in Mark 9…Lord I believe, help thou my unbelief…!
Our struggle with doubt is like our struggle with sin…just as we must learn to master our flesh in the battle against sin, so we must learn to master our doubt,(by constantly feeding on the word of truth) so that it does not become the foundation of what we believe. As long as we are in this life, there will always be some doubt.
I just read this very interesting article so I am entering the conversation a bit late. I tried to read through all the comments but it was quite daunting and I ended up skimming through them.
I think that Michael Patton’s point is that fallen people sometimes experience doubt. “To doubt is human”, I would add.
For if we look at the disciples in their various responses to Jesus they often doubted or lacked faith. I don’t think that Michael’s article is saying it is good to doubt God or His Word, but I do think he is trying to say that experiencing doubt is an experience common to fallen people.
Now it is true that Jesus rebukes doubt, but, as shown by how our Lord acted with Thomas, he understands our human frailty. He compassionately helped Thomas to overcome his doubt (John 20:27).
I also think of the man in Mark 9:24 who had a son with an unclean spirit and brought him to Jesus to be healed. The disciples had been unable to cast out the spirit and this was apparently due to some measure of faithlessness in them (Mark 9:19). Notice the exchange between the man and Jesus:
“And they brought the boy to him. And when the spirit saw him, immediately it convulsed the boy, and he fell on the ground and rolled about, foaming at the mouth. 21 And Jesus asked his father, “How long has this been happening to him?” And he said, “From childhood. 22 And it has often cast him into fire and into water, to destroy him. But if you can do anything, have compassion on us and help us.” 23 And Jesus said to him, “‘If you can’ All things are possible for one who believes.” 24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, “I believe; help my unbelief!” .
I think that the father here is very honest and humble– he knows that his faith is imperfect and he cries out for help from the Lord. I think that in this matter of doubt we ought to similarly plead for God to have mercy on us all. Of course we should also read and act upon God’s word.
So I think there is a synergistic quality to our faith/walk with God.
Paul said, “But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me” (1 Cor 15:10) and also,
“work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure (Phil 2: 12-13).
I think these verses show that while believers act on the grace of God, ultimately God is the one working in us.
Also he says, “For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.”
So we each have a measure of faith assigned to us by God– can it be increased? Surely it can, yet at the same time we must recognize God’s grace…
Hi Wm,
You are refering to Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
That is through grace. Faith doesn’t bring death into life grace does.
When a person steps into accepting Jesus through faith. That activates the grace of God. And grace does the rest of the saving.
So even in that faith is not gift of God. Grace is. We can not provide grace of God for us but we can tap into it through faith.
Here is how I understand John 6:37 and following verses.
Verse 40 gives the desire of Father.
John 6:40 “And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
He wants every one to believe on the Son and have everlasting life.
verse 44 Father draws people and these are the people “who has heard and learned from the Father” Verse 45.
All these people are still those who have stepped forward with faith. Verse 40 “everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him”.
I don’t think God makes a determination before hand whom He wants to chose and whom He doesn’t want. Although Through His forknowledge He knows who is going to come and who is not.
So when a person is ready to hear and learn from the Father then Father draws that person. Paul was ready for it that’s why God created those circumstances. Still Paul could have rejected Jesus if he wanted to. I mean it is in reverse order than what you have written.
I want to thank CMP for this article. I am greatly comforted by these words and completely understand with ease, the language and intent of their content. I also thank Wm Tanksley for his clarifying words and strong Biblical knowledge which helped to de-tangle much of the back and forth discussion.
Based on the Scripture listed by everyone and my own simplified interpretation, it certainly seems that the amount of faith that we each have while we are on this planet is a gift of God allocated as He sees fit. I struggle terribly with doubt even though I read the Word, and I have often wondered at people who have more faith than I, even though they are not immersed in the Word. Vinod, I do not see that Jesus was explicitly encouraging or implying that the various people whom He touched during His time on earth, needed to increase their faith.
I too believe that God Himself instructs us, but also that He put Peter and the apostles in positions as teachers and leaders for a reason. These two methods are not mutually exclusive. I suppose the hardest thing to remember in these kind of debates is that the truth needs to be spoken in love(-for just a few of the posters). I can’t even claim that I could have accomplished this myself given this particular set of difficult discussions. At best I sometimes employ a delayed response to edit my flesh from an heated reply before posting. I am grateful to have come across such a passionate, Christ loving site. Thank you for the encouraging words which have aided my walk with our Lord.
I am a passionate believer in the Lord Jesus Christ and for years haunted by all manner of doubt. I consider your commentary one of the finest contributions to this area of thought that I have ever read. It is clear that you have examined doubt from many angles and offer a conclusion that gives such solace to my often anxious heart. I am so grateful for what you have written on this subject. Certainly I also love the work of Lee Strobel, William Lane Craig, Gary Habermas, Mike Licona, Os Guinness, and others. Yours in Christ, RP
I agree with Michael. I went through a stressful period of doubt (God’s existence, miracles and the resurrection) beginning during my final year of Bible school. The doubts drove me to buy books that addressed my areas of concern. I struggled. After several months I realized that I had more evidence on the side calling for belief in God’s existence and Christ’s resurrection. I took that “leap of faith”, converting my childhood faith into adult faith. Sometimes doubts still cross my mind, but I now realize that faith does not mean the absence of doubt. It means I am willing to take my chances on what looks like the best game in town, with the most evidence to back it up. I haven’t been disappointed.
Important topic. Thanks for raising it and for what you’ve said, Michael. Don Carson’s sermon on Doubting Thomas is well worth everyone’s time. He points out there are many reasons for doubting.
I love the way that Thomas, once a doubter, made one of the most marvellous statements of Christ’s divinity in John 20:20.
What a way to start the morning. I’ve been reading these blogs all morning.
It saddens me tremendously to have doubts about the existence of God. Those doubts have decreased as my knowledge of Gods Word has increased.
How do I deal with doubt. I would, and still do, remember all that GOD has done in my life. All the prayers He answered, even before I accepted Christ as my Saviour. I was in my forties when I accepted Christ as my Saviour.
I KNOW without a doubt that I have prayed to Him and He has responded to those prayers in a way that only He can. It casts out all doubt in my heart.
Does the doubt return. Oh yeah. But it does not linger and I find it refreshing to sit back and REMEMBER His awesome presence in my life.
For as long as I can remember I have always believed in God, without knowing much about Him. ( I was not raised in a Christian family)
Trusting Him was another matter. I did not have believe that I could trust anyone including God and it took decades, many decades) before I could accept Christs love for me. Now, well I can’t imagine life without Christ, nor would I want it.
Is it that every one here reading a different Bible?
Bible doesn’t endorse doubt of Thomas.
John 20:27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
Jesus said to him “Do not be unbelieving, but believing”.
Then read verse 29.
John 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
To me it looks an indirect rebuke to Thomas saying Thomas you are not blessed because you could not believe.
Jesus is clearly against unbelief. That is not the issue. He is not saying strengthen your faith. He is saying believe. We are not frozen photographs, we are human beings. As human beings we move back and forth with our limited human capacity to be constant; some wavering less and some more. Jesus was compassionate to Thomas. He knew his human heart and admonished Thomas in His perfect love. He did not say to Thomas “You have forfeited heaven because of the unforgivable sin of doubt”. Jesus, the creator, died also for our weak ability to attain the level of belief that you describe. Empathy is a gift that can be increased. Jesus empathized with all of our weaknesses, including our doubt. Yes, it is blessed for us to believe without seeing. We will enter heaven with our mustard seed of faith and celebrate for eternity because of His death and resurrection–not because we believe perfectly. If Jesus could forgive Thomas even though Thomas had the benefit of witnessing Jesus’ miracles, He can forgive us who lapse into doubt at our weak moments (which are many). I cling to my hope in Christ and realize that without His mercy for my condition as a human, I would be eternally separated from His presence. I am so grateful, that while I struggle on to keep my faith in Jesus, that there is empathy in this forum to nudge me on in my walk.
All Christians doubt and if they say they don’t, they lie on top of doubting. Until we see the Saviour face to face, we will have periods of tempting doubts.
One more thing. Doubting is not unbelief. It is a TEMPTATION to unbelief.
Amen, Stan!
Another Amen to Stan. That’s a tremendous insight. One who doubts can still obey, and obedience is the essence of faith, and of loving God. I think Jesus doubted in the garden on the eve of the crucifixion. Yet he obeyed.
Good thoughts, Dave Z.
The scriptures are quite clear that even in our faithlesslessness…He remains faithful.
Thanks be to God it doesn’t depend on us.
I believe that for the born-again Christian, when doubts come up, they are effectively temptations from satan. The born-again only has to look to the experience of being regenerated to remind them of what God has done in their lives and know that He is very much real. The doubts come up, but they are short-lived, unless cultivated. The problem is that many, if not most, professing Christians have not been born again and therefore are not truly Christians at all. This is a very serious concern.
“In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” John 3:3
Being a Christian is not merely a belief or an activity. It is a person who has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit. If you wonder whether this has happened to you or not, it most likely has not.
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! ” 2 Cor 5:17
It is an undeniable, life-changing experience, to say the least. It is utterly impossible for me to look back and deny that this has happened to me. I still refer to it as my “brain transplant”. It was that radical. It is brought about by surrender to the Lord, repentance (true repentance – not just apology) and trusting Christ to take authority over your life.
“The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!” Mark 1:15
To me, the word “believe” is not strong enough to describe my relationship with the Lord. I know what the Lord has done in me and in my life. Through the study of His word and the personal experience of those things that He has done, I can readily say that I KNOW the Lord Himself.
The bible tells us to examine ourselves and be certain that we are in the faith. (2 Cor 13:5) If you are experiencing doubts, I’d highly recommend visiting that scripture.
Blake
Great — but we already know that fear cannot be the opposite of faith, since perfect love is only available by faith, and “perfect love casteth out fear.” Therefore we have proof that fear isn’t the opposite of faith, which hints that the other things Christ rebuked also need not be.
I really like Stan’s insight that doubt is a temptation to lose faith, not itself the loss of faith. Fear, I would expect, works in a similar way.
I dispute it because there’s not a single passage that ever in any sense asks for it, and many passages that clearly contradict it.
There are two huge gaps that you’ve never been able to bridge between the Bible and where you’re standing. The first is that “the context”, when actually examined, actually has always shown that increasing faith isn’t needed; simple existence of faith is what’s needed. The second is that the mustard seed parable is _about_ the Kingdom, not about mustard seeds.
You know nothing of my childhood, and that’s irrelevant. (It’s not true.)
To be continued:
-Wm
If you stop and think about it, faith actually begins when we are faced with doubt because we have to make a choice. After all, doubts about how we were living, and whether we were on the right path or not is the reason most of us turned to Christ in the first place. In that instance, doubt was certainly a positive.
I think it is absolutely human to continue to have doubts from time to time. Without that capacity human beings could not separate right from wrong, or truth from error. I don’t know any clergyman who can truthfully say they have never doubted the existence of God at some point.
I think a lot of times what happens is we want to live or to think one way, and God wants us to live or to think another. When the temptation becomes strong enough we choose sin, like Adam and Eve. So, it’s not so much a matter of doubting, as how we choose to act upon that doubt.
Some really excellent comments here– I agree with Stan when he says that “Doubting is not unbelief. It is a TEMPTATION to unbelief.”
If we are having doubt in some area, we ought not to feel condemned but instead to counter our doubt by turning to God’s word and/or addressing our doubt with specific evidence that will help us believe, trust God and overcome our doubts.
Satan tempts us to doubt the veracity of God, but being tempted is not a sin. We fight the good fight of faith, and counter Satanic lies with the truth of God’s word.
And if we do at times succumb to unbelief through our doubt, this, as someone else mentioned, is not the unforgivable sin. It is a sin that Jesus also paid for on the cross.
Vinod’s comments on this topic seem founded on the assumption that producing faith is entirely man’s responsibility. This is an Arminian assumption that is wrong biblically, as others have pointed out. Fallen people don’t come to God on their own— God comes to them, granting them the ability to perceive the truth of the gospel..
For example, in John 6:53-59, Jesus expressed deep spiritual truths in the words he spoke to his disciples, saying “the words I have spoke to you are spirit and life.” He said,
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood l has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” Jesus said these things in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.
Many hearing these words could not believe them:
When many of his disciples heard it, they said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were grumbling about this, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” (John 6:60-65)
Jesus teaches here that the Spirit gives life, and the flesh is no help at all in generating faith to believe. We don’t come to believe in Jesus because of our own human capacity to believe, but rather the ability to come to Jesus– to believe and have faith in Him– is granted by the Father…
So coming back to doubt– we would all be doubters who would never come to belief in God and in His word were it not for the Spirit, who gives life and overcomes our sinful weakness, our spiritual blindness. “The Spirit gives life; the flesh is no help at all” (see also Eph 2: 1-8)
And even as believers, we continue to rely on the indwelling presence of God within us (John 14:15-24), who sustains our faith and nurtures it by granting us the ability to grow deeper in our understanding of the truth. Apart from God in us we can do nothing (John 15:5), including have the kind of faith that overcomes doubt.
Our faith is being tested, but God’s power is what caused us to be born again and what also guards us in our faith:
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in t praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
(1 Peter 3:1-9)
Vinod’s comments on this topic seem founded on the assumption that producing faith is entirely man’s responsibility. This is an Arminian assumption that is wrong biblically
While the assumption is wrong biblically, it is not Arminian. It is semi-Pelagian.
IF Christ were intending to define “mustard seed”, He was in error. Mustard plants are small weeds, not big bushes, and certainly not trees. He was not in error because He was defining the Kingdom; He didn’t say that mustard seeds grow into trees, but rather that the Kingdom starts from an implausibly small start (like a mustard seed), and grows into a huge tree (He didn’t say, but this is UNLIKE a mustard seed)… and …
You forgot one:
4. Birds of the air (wild birds) build nests in it.
How does that fit into faith, since you want to force it to? Birds in the Kingdom parables are symbols of the servants of the evil one… How does that work out for your reading?
Trying to make Christ define the life cycle of mustard makes Christ look ignorant and wrong. It also means that Christ was using “mustard seed” differently from other rabbis of the time, who are cited as having used it as an example of smallness.
It’s also odd that although you think Christ is trying to answer the disciple’s question (about increasing faith), they didn’t actually ask about how they could increase their faith; they requested that He act to increase their faith! Perhaps you think they were asking the wrong thing; but Christ didn’t speak to correct them on that; instead he told them about faith as a mustard seed.
Now, if we still insist that Christ meant “growing faith” when He compared it to a mustard seed (which honestly doesn’t make sense — a seed isn’t growing, it’s dormant), we run into another problem: God is the one who causes plants to grow and gives the harvest, not us; so even if we pushed past all the previous objections, we’re still stuck with admitting that “increasing our faith” would be an act of God, not of us.
-Wm
Hi Wm,
Perfect love casts out fear. That itself tells that fear is unwelcome. According to you faith produces perfect love so in other words faith casts out fear. Same way faith casts out doubt. When you firmly believe in something doubt is not there.
So I don’t see a point in your argument that “doubt is not opposite of faith” or “fear is not opposite of faith”. Doubt replaces faith so is fear.
James 1:15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
In James 1:15 if you cutoff desire you will not reach upto sin. Same way if you cut off doubt or fear you will not reach upto unbelief.
I see absolutely no point in trying to support doubt by saying every one has it. Every one has sin too so what? We have to deal with sin same way we have to deal with doubt.
I already gave you lot of references for “no faith”, “little faith” and “great faith”. I already told you have “little faith” which is equal to your “simple existence of faith” is disqualified by Jesus already.
You get that “simple existence of faith is enough” because you deliberately want to interpret faith as mustard seed into small faith.
Mat 8:26 But He said to them, “Why are you fearful, O you of little faith?” Then He arose and rebuked the winds and the sea, and there was a great calm.
That is your “simple existence of faith”. Faith exists there in “little” messure. For your information it didn’t calm the storm.
So “simple existence of faith” can not produce anything according to Mat 8:26.
I said:
Vinod’s comments on this topic seem founded on the assumption that producing faith is entirely man’s responsibility. This is an Arminian assumption that is wrong biblically…
And you commented:
While the assumption is wrong biblically, it is not Arminian. It is semi-Pelagian.
Yes, the Arminian position does grant that God gives a kind of grace (prevenient grace) that draws men to God. Yet it also says that, in the end, man must make the choice to believe or disbelieve the gospel. And somehow that choice is independent of God. For the Arminian then, although God helps man to believe by giving grace, that grace can be rejected.
I think that Jesus contradicted this notion in the John 6 passage I quoted. He shows that it is the Spirit alone who gives life and the flesh counts for nothing. I take this to mean that by my own human effort I cannot come to believe. Also in John 6:65, explaining to the disciples why some did not believe, Jesus says, “no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
John 1:12-13 I think also speaks to this, when it says:
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
We are not born Christians, nor can the flesh produce faith nor does our own choice make us born again, but God causes us to be born again.
It seemed to me that Vinod’s semi-Pelagian/Arminian overemphasis on man’s role in the process of producing or generating faith was causing him to reject the main thrust of Michael’s article. Which is that sinful, fallen people (all mankind, including born-again Christians) struggle to believe and may experience doubts, but by God’s grace believers not only come to know the truth of the gospel but also develop stronger faith, as the Spirit helps us in our weakness.
Hi Joshua Allen,
I didn’t assume anything. I gave solid Bible references.
Can you give Bible references to backup your statement. To me it looks you are the one making assumptions.
If faith is God’s responsibility then God can not blame humans for anything that is happening on earth. All the blame goes to God that why He didn’t provide faith. If faith is God’s responsibility and man has no control on it then God is at fault for not doing His job.
Man has always been running from his responsibility and has been blaming God for his misdeeds.
You will not find a single verse in the Bible that will tell faith is God’s responsibility. Even the gifts of Holy Spirit doesn’t come automatically unless person desires and asks for them specifically.
1 Cor 12:31 But earnestly desire the best gifts…..” If God is the only decider then there is no point to “earnestly desire”.
Also these gifts need to be stired up the receiver.
2 Tim 1:6 Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.
Also these gifts were given by laying on of paul’s hands. So the receiving of gifts was not automatic instead it was given through paul’s laying of hands.
So if you sit back and relax and don’t desire or somebody whom God has appointed does not lay hands you don’t receive those gifts.
Human responsibility is there every step of the way.
It’s a pity that most people follow this kind of phrase with a “but”:
Rom 14:23 says that whatever is not of faith, is sin. Two responses:
First, you’re assuming that if a person has any sin in their life, they’re not saved (otherwise you wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that 0% doubt is required for salvation). This is clearly wrong.
Second, this verse is not labeling doubt as sin, but rather actions that proceed from doubt — or more accurately, actions which do NOT proceed from any cause aside from faith. (This is why “all their righteousnesses are as filthy rags.”) This is true for EVERY motivation. If I wash my car because I trust God to honor my care for His property, I’m not sinning; if I wash it because I do that every month (but forget about God), I’m sinning.
Yes. And none of that is of ourselves, lest any should boast.
You are free at this point to say something like, “I retract my statement that people don’t reach saving faith overnight.”
The Gentiles Paul preached to were hearing for the first time. (I concede that many of the Pentecost converts had already heard.)
Yes, but you’re also claiming that the threshold is 0 doubt 100% faith. I’m claiming that the threshold is ANY faith at all. Until you have that, you’re a child of wrath (Eph 2); after you have it, God saves you through that faith that you have. You can’t put that faith inside yourself; anything you do without faith is SIN, and so can’t be part of salvation.
-Wm
“Human responsibility is there every step of the way.”
Absolutely. Folks forget that God Himself gave Adam and Eve a choice between life and death, so this shouldn’t be reduced to a Calvinist or Arminian issue. Adam and Eve freely chose knowledge of good and evil over life. God did not make that choice for them, nor does He now for mankind. Obviously, if He did it would still be a perfect world.
Doubt doesn’t necessarily mean a lack of faith. It simply means we are not completely sure of the why, what, when, where and how of something. If it does affect our faith as Christians, it is our responsibility to go to God with it in prayer and faith and ask Him to help us in our unbelief.
Yes, man is responsible to believe the gospel, as Jesus taught:
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God (John 3:18, see also John 3:36)
Yet at the same time, Jesus also said:
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. John 6:37
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. John 6:44
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
John 6:63-65
Jesus teaches that people who come to God (in other words, people who believe and are saved) are those that the Father gives Him, those to whom it has been granted to be able to come to Jesus. He explains unbelief by saying that the ones who did not come to Him were those to whom it was not granted by the Father. So faith to believe is a gift from God.
Paul’s teaching in Ephesians 2:8-9 reiterates the truth that the faith that saves us is completely a gift of God, not something that we in ourselves can produce, and therefore we can never boast about it or take credit for it:
“For by grace you have been saved a through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. ”
The following is a commentary on Eph 2:8 from the ESV Study Bible:
Eph. 2:8 By grace refers to God’s favor upon those who have transgressed his law and sinned against him. But grace may also be understood as a “power” in these verses. God’s grace not only offers salvation but also secures it. Saved refers to deliverance from God’s wrath at the final judgment (Rom. 5:9); “by grace you have been saved” is repeated from Eph. 2:5 for emphasis. The verb form for “have been saved” (Gk. sesōsmenoi, perfect tense) communicates that the Christian’s salvation is fully secured. through faith. Faith is a confident trust and reliance upon Christ Jesus and is the only means by which one can obtain salvation. this. The Greek pronoun is neuter, while “grace” and “faith” are feminine. Accordingly, “this” points to the whole process of “salvation by grace through faith” as being the gift of God and not something that we can accomplish ourselves. This use of the neuter pronoun to take in the whole of a complex idea is quite common in Greek (e.g., 6:1); its use here makes it clear that faith, no less than grace, is a gift of God. Salvation, therefore, in every respect, is not your own doing.
So man is responsible to believe the gospel yet the faith that saves is a gift of God. Both truths are in the Bible.
Hi Wm,
What picture does word gooseberry draw in your mind? If you ever saw one in US it will draw a picture of a shrub in your mind. I come from India and when I hear gooseberry it draws a picture of a huge tree in my mind.
Because in North India I have myself seen huge trees of gooseberry. So when I first saw a gooseberry shrub here in US I could not believe. I tasted it and it tasted exactly like gooseberry I had known.
So Jesus may not be talking about mustard plant we know here in US. Some people have suggested that may be He was talking about black mustard (Brassica nigra ).
I also found there are other types of mustard trees/plants too. http://www.articlealley.com/article_539930_26.html
So just hearing mustard seed we can’t be sure that what Jesus was seeing in His place 2000 years back.
Description does tell us that Jesus is seeing something that is big and He is calling it mustard tree.
You wrote:
———-
4. Birds of the air (wild birds) build nests in it.
How does that fit into faith, since you want to force it to? Birds in the Kingdom parables are symbols of the servants of the evil one… How does that work out for your reading?
———-
Birds symbol of servants of the evil one? From where you get that? I don’t see in the passage that those Birds are wild birds either. It just mentions Birds.
To me it is there to just to show how big the mustard tree/plant is.
God doesn’t go and preach to make kingdom of God grow. Evangelists, pastors and believers go and preach to help kingdom of God grow. So your analogy and trying put it on God doesn’t work.
Hi Alexander,
You wrote: faith that saves is a gift of God
Where is it in the Bible? So far I know only about a misinterpreted Eph 2:8 No body gave any other verse to back their claim about it. May be you can help and give me that reference?
Hi Vinod:
I did not only quote Ephesians 2:8 but also a number of verses from John 6. The verses I quoted in John 6 demonstrate that when people come to God and are saved, according to Jesus’ own teaching, they are being drawn by the Father and they are unable to come to Jesus unless drawn by the Father.
So these passages show that belief in God (faith to believe in Jesus) is a gift of the Father.
Jesus also explains unbelief by repeating that “no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
I also think that Eph 2:8 is quite clear in showing that faith is a gift of God– for if it was not, then someone could indeed boast. Paul says that no one can boast– about either the grace that God gives them nor the faith through which they are saved.
I also provided a commentary on Eph 2:8 which shows how the original Greek supports the interpretation I have presented.
The bible speaks of faith as something that must be matured, strengthened, added to, developed, matured, nurtured, protected and perfected over time. :
Math 6.30 Jesus speaks about Ye of “little faith” while in Math 15.28 he told the woman “great is thy faith”: so the level and quantity of faith can vary from person to person.
Note that in both cases some faith was present, unlike Mark 4.40 WHERE NO FAITH WAS PRESENT “IS IT THAT YE HAVE NO FAITH”?.
In Math 17.20 Jesus says that even if our faith is as small as a “grain of mustard seed” it can still be used effectively by God..
2Thess 1:3 Paul says the Thessolonians’ faith had “grown”.
James 1: 3 say that the “trying of our faith works patience”.
2 Peter 1:5 tells us to “add to our faith virtue”
and Paul in 1 Cor13 says that if we have “all faith” and no charity our faith is useless.
So there is no need for any saint to walk around claiming to have all faith, 100 percent perfected. SDome saints grow faster than some. Oh for some humility, honesty, vulnerability and charity among the saints!
Some saints claim to have faith but we often confuse faith with optimism, hope, feeling luck, wishing, wanting, or being determined. These are not faith. If you are optmistic that somethign will occur or if you hope that somwething will occcur, fine. But that is not faith. The faith of Christ is a gift of God.
Michael, Thanks for another good article. I am there right now. I am listening to Nancy Pearcy’s “Total Truth” and she also came to a point of dumping her Christian faith to find the “truth”. She did over time find the truth, and it was Christianity. These struggles will make our faith stronger than if we just succumb to the faith our parents, friends, church folk, etc. lend us. That works fine until the heat turns up. Then we have to find our own faith.
@Alexander – I don’t think it’s the purpose of this thread to debate Calvinism vs. Arminianism. I just wanted to make sure that we’re not calling Vlad’s semi-Pelagianism “Arminian”, because it’s not. While I don’t consider myself Arminian, I think it’s very important to be intellectually honest about characterizing our opponents’ positions. It is not fair to Arminians to lump Vlad’s theology in with them.
I don’t want to make this thread into a debate between Arminianism and Calvinism. However some of the statements that Vinod has made seem to me to be based on either Arminian or semi-Pelagian assumptions that I think are incorrect biblically and I pointed this out.
And I am being intellectually honest by stating my differences with both of those points of view and in my comments trying to show that there is a connection between what one believes about where faith comes from and this issue of doubt experienced by Christians that Michael raised in his article.
If we think faith is entirely self-generated and define faith as consisting of 0% doubt, it will make it difficult, if not impossible, to sympathize with anyone experiencing doubt, especially other believers. We will condemn all doubt as sin.
Experiencing doubt however, as others have pointed out here, is not the same as unbelief and is therefore not necessarily sin. And fallen creatures could have no faith at all were it not for the grace and mercy of God. Having become believers doesn’t mean that we are no longer sinners — accordingly our faith will be less than perfect (i.e, we may experience moments of doubt or some measure of less than perfect faith).
@Alexander – I agree 100% with your rebuttals of Vinod. He seems semi-pelagian at best, which is why I am completely ignoring him.
I’m just saying it’s very misleading to throw the “Arminian” label into the rebuttals, since he’s not even close to Arminian. It would be exactly like debunking Daniel Dennet (who believes in compatibilist free will) by calling him a Calvinist and saying “Dennet has come under sway of Calvinist ideas like compatibilist free will, therefore he is wrong”. It wouldn’t be fair to Calvinists like myself to do that, since it’s false, and in any case it is committing the circumstantial ad hominem fallacy if it were true.
Joshua,
You may be correct in saying that Vinod’s views are more precisely labeled semi-Pelagian rather than Arminian. But I’m not completely sure his statements aren’t Arminian to some degree. For example his comment (#165) is something I’ve heard Arminians often argue:
“I don’t think God makes a determination before hand whom He wants to chose and whom He doesn’t want. Although Through His forknowledge He knows who is going to come and who is not.
So when a person is ready to hear and learn from the Father then Father draws that person.”
Based on this statement, as well as Vinod’s argument that although God gives grace, faith is still our moral responsibility (something I’ve also heard Arminians argue) I don’t think it was such a leap for me to conclude that Vinod was presenting Arminian sounding arguments. Nor I wasn’t trying to mislead anyone by characterizing his arguments as such.
And as I see it Arminianism and Pelagianism share some similarity in their error. Pelagianism is of course much more extreme in its error because it says man’s nature was not affected by Adam’s fall, but that all men are still free to choose good or evil. Semi-pelgianism was less wrong but still off, saying that man is not free to do good in his fallen nature, but he is at least able to believe and come to God in his own native strength.
Arminians like Welsey at least proclaimed the biblical truth of the radical depravity of man and therefore saw that the first steps of grace are taken by God. But the problem with Arminianism is if we all get the same (prevenient) grace but one chooses to believe and another doesn’t, then this gives one something to boast about over another and thus contradicts Paul’s clear statement in Ephesians 2:8-9.
So if we understand the assumptions (Calvinistic, Arminian, Semi-Pelagian, etc.) someone is making in their arguments we can better understand their view. I don’t want to mischaracterize either the Arminian view nor Vinod’s arguments here. Againn I do think there is a connection between Vinod’s view of faith and his disagreements with Michael’s article.
If you wish to be technical, this is *by* grace, not through it. But neither grace nor faith is a thing that saves us; “grace” is the way in which God saves us (graciously = freely, without obligation or external cause), and faith is the means by which our salvation becomes worked into our lives, “both to will and to do His good pleasure”.
The only “thing” that saves us is God; grace isn’t a “thing” and faith isn’t a “thing”. (This is the meaning of the Reformation slogan “solus Christus”; Christ is the agent of our salvation, the active subject of the sentence, while in “sola gratia” grace is grammatically a means, not an agent.)
That contradicts what Eph 2 says, as we’ve said over and over. Before God acts to make us alive, we are DEAD; after He acts (by grace!), we are not only alive, but “seated in the heavenlies”. Now, as Paul says over and over, we will see faith in all (and ONLY in) Christians; and a James says, we should measure that faith by observing how it overflows into works, not by introspection.
You wanted to say that the entire process of salvation is a gift of God, where I wanted to read that as saying that faith is a gift of God. Either way you’re wrong here; if the entire process is a gift of God, then certainly the faith through which our salvation occurs is part of that gift (even though after it’s gifted it’s by nature OURS, and we are the agents in exercising it).
And again, “grace” is not a *thing* that we can tap into; there’s nothing like that in the Bible, and it doesn’t fit the form of the word. The phrase “by grace” could just as well be translated “graciously” or even “freely”.
And note how well that thinking fits into Eph 2! There’s that parenthesis in verse 5 that makes no sense if you try to say that faith is how we get saved, because there’s no mention prior to that of any faith we contribute; but if you realize that Paul is trying to say that salvation is God’s gracious act, and faith comes later, why that’s exactly how to say it.
More response to this in my next post.
-Wm