I do suspect that soon, I will get back to writing more material focused on stabilizing hope. I have those days and I have those thoughts. Deep inside me there is great strength, and it does not come from my mind or will. However, for now, I must continue to write from my brokenness; if for nothing else, I do it to preserve these dark times, in writing, for me and my children. If one day I cannot express my love for them, and care for them in whatever pain they may face, I want them to see my pain. But I want them to see it with a faith anchor that will never give.

I have spoken – so many times – of my family’s grief and loss. I sit here in my father’s house which, just seven years ago, was filled with life, plans, hopes, and dreams. Now the house is dark and painful, overrun with memories from a time taken for granted. But the pain is not something I simply have to bear; it increases and mutates every day. My sister’s death, and my mother’s paralysis and torn mind, I have spoken of many times. But God has placed in my back two knives of which I cannot speak. These have pierced deeper and darker than the other two. My silence is one of honor and hope. Honor because I must protect. Hope because I dream of healing.

I was in Frisco yesterday. I attended Stonebriar Community Church. As I walked through the halls of the church, the sights, smells, and faces reminded me of a time when I was full of life. I knew so much then. I was so strong. I was a pastor to many and a shepherd with a staff. I came to the aid of those who were broken. I guided and directed their recovery. I placed balm on their hearts’ wounds. My strength was their strength. My hopes became their hopes. They would not drown while they were in my care.

I moved to Oklahoma to help those in my family who were suffering from my sister’s death. I crossed the Red River with great sadness and urgency. Kristie, Lindsey, and my dad needed me. My mother needed me. It was time for me to let go of the hands of so many I loved to grasp the hands of a drowning few. I made it two years before the weight, tied so securely around their ankles, snaked its way around mine as well. I began to sink with them. As they gasped for breath, so did I. As they lost sight of the future, so did I. As they hung on to life, so did I. I broke with them. Now we spend our time resuscitating each other.

Yet I say with as much certainty as I can muster, I believe in Christ. Today, I am more convicted of the truthfulness of what he did for me than at any other time in my life. I cling closer to him than I ever have. And my clinging is not for some pragmatic gain. I have little hope of relief in this present life. I suppose this is good (or so I am told by that big book I read all the time).

That Jesus fellow. . . . Boy, he works in ways I don’t get. He makes me tired. He is so confusing. But I have nowhere else to go. He is the only one that has the answers. He is the only one who laid himself bare on that cross for me. He loves me. Me. Some other old guy named Paul says that Jesus loved me and gave himself up for me. Me! For me! That’s crazy stuff.

Someone asked me a few days ago if I was mad at God. My wife asked me again tonight, “Why aren’t you mad at him?” I suppose I am. In fact, I yelled at him pretty good while sitting in the darkest room of this house earlier. But I am not really mad at him for the individual circumstances of my life. I am not mad at him about my sister or my mother. And I am not mad at him about the two other untouchables. So why am I mad? Maybe this is really weird, but I am mad that he has not come back yet. I am tired of him taking so long. I am tired of this world (including myself) failing to give the belief, glory, and honor that is due him. “Why are you taking so long! I am tired of the unbelief.” Ever since the fathers fell asleep, things have remained pretty much the same. No change. No sign of your coming. No, “It’s getting close!” or, “Just wait one more year.” Christ, you left two thousand years go. Two thousand years! What are you waiting on? Why not come with times of refreshing? We are groaning down here. We are struggling with our belief. We need to see you. Do you take office visits?

Well, it’s late and I should not be writing.


C Michael Patton
C Michael Patton

C. Michael Patton is the primary contributor to the Parchment and Pen/Credo Blog. He has been in ministry for nearly twenty years as a pastor, author, speaker, and blogger. Find him on Patreon Th.M. Dallas Theological Seminary (2001), president of Credo House Ministries and Credo Courses, author of Now that I'm a Christian (Crossway, 2014) Increase My Faith (Credo House, 2011), and The Theology Program (Reclaiming the Mind Ministries, 2001-2006), host of Theology Unplugged, and primary blogger here at Parchment and Pen. But, most importantly, husband to a beautiful wife and father to four awesome children. Michael is available for speaking engagements. Join his Patreon and support his ministry

    59 replies to "Writing from My Brokenness"

    • Derek

      I will pray for you often my brother.

    • Rob

      Michael:

      Words cannot adequately express how moved and grateful I am that you are willing to be so publicly open and vulnerable. You are, and have, helped and ministered to uncounted souls, not because you have all the answers, but by sharing your deepest struggles you show others in similar predicaments that they are not alone, and more importantly, it is possible to remain faithful to God in such times. I have suffered grief and loss, and experienced similar feelings to yours, however compared to your experiences, mine were no worse than stubbing a toe. I would not be able to look you in the eye and claim I could handle what you’re going through better than you, in fact, I bet I’d do far worse.

      Know that even though I don’t have any deep advice or answers for you (and in my opinion, any honest person would admit as much), I to some degree share your pain and have some level of understanding, though I won’t insult you by claiming “I know exactly what it’s like.”

      Stay strong. I will be praying for you.

      Rob

    • cherylu

      Ah Michaeal, my brother, He will come, He will come. I don’t know when either, but He will come.

      I suspect that there are many of His children whose hearts echo your heart’s cry in one way or another.

      I also wish there was a way that I could “fix” all of the pain your family is dealing with. But we both know that is not possible. My heart aches for you and with you.

    • C. Barton

      Wow. Ouch. Michael, your love and faith are open and evidence is plentiful. Thanks for your courage!
      When I am down, I go to the Psalms, because they were written by a guy who had more than a fair slice of life. He took the whole cake, and then some. And it’s not just the reading, but that Spirit thing called fellowship of sufferings. It is alive, and real, and joy can exist beneath the pain and confusion. There it is! His joy is my strength. His joy kept him on the cross. Ouch! But he rose again, and he knows when and what to do.
      And here is what happened to us: We were born again into a spiritual reality about which we knew little or nothing. And when we began to walk, our Father was there to catch us.
      But sometimes we fall, and learn to pick ourselves up and keep going (Bruce Wayne, “Batman Begins”).
      When Jesus told us we had to become little children, he wasn’t kidding. It’s all the stuff of growing up, but in a new life and world. Ouch!

    • R David

      Isn’t part of the Christian walk that we don’t, we can’t, do it alone. We need others. That is one of the purposes of the church (local and universal). You provided encouragement for others, but that does not mean you will not also need encouragement from others.

    • Tim Kimberley

      Michael,

      Thank you for being so honest. As I stood shoulder to shoulder with you at the Gospel Coalition conference it was amazing to see all the people and hear all the stories of people who have been greatly helped by posts such as these. Yes, I look forward to all the upcoming posts in the major-key of hope…but we all must learn to sing songs in the minor-key as well.

      I think of the fairly famous guy who started crying before you at the conference because you have been gifted to help people at some of the most important times. Although our ministry helps people on many different fronts, this one is perhaps the most important. My dream is for guys like Matthew Warren to have a Credo House in their area where they can find a friend in times of trouble.

      Glad to be your almost best friend. 🙂

      -Tim

      • C Michael Patton

        Tim, second best friend. Not almost. You are clearly marked as second. 🙂

    • cherylu

      Michael,

      I would also like to encourage you to remember that at any moment the tide may turn. God is still a miracle working God in the here and now. It is good and right to look for the total final healing with the Lord. We know that is the only place that we and all things will finally be made completely right. But please, in the meantime, don’t give up hope that He can do wonders in this life time too in all of the situations you are struggling with now.

    • ruben

      Hi Michael, I have gone through years of depression myself and know where you are coming from, like a recovering addict I have been released from this the past few months and I take it day to day because I am afraid of relapsing to my depression. I’ve been reading a lot of NT Wright lately and one of the things he says that strikes me is that the kingdom of God is here, it is not in some far of Heaven after we die, it will culminate in His second coming here on earth. The thing that strikes me is that it is here, where we live, where we are. When Jesus inaugurated His ministry it began. I was so depressed because I thought we, as Christians, were meant to live for the next life. Like you I kept holding out for that day. But this comes more from Greek thinking and even Gnosticism, Heaven intersects with Earth and the Kingdom is here, it is not a worldly kingdom of power (at least not until it reaches it’s completion) but a kingdom of a different sort. And this kind of motivates me and gives me hope and a purpose. Keeps me from sliding back to my depression.

    • Sadly today there is a great loss in the church’s Inner Life, i.e. the true meaning and significance of inwardness! The Christian “soul-spirit”, and its “experiences” ; the validity of inward experience, and most certainly the great doctrine of Christian Assurance! Indeed the so-called master of the inner life, itself ‘a supernatural act’ is “Christ in you the hope of glory (glorification).” (Col. 1: 27) But for those who by faith are In Christ, this great hope is certain assurance!

      Btw, there is also a great need today for pastoral “Confession & Communion” between believers! See Bonhoeffer’s classic book: ‘Life Together’, etc. This is part of the biblical “Koinonia” and fellowship that believers share ‘In Christ’!

      *Btw, one should know that Bonhoeffer’s Christology can be rather liberal, or “modern”.

    • Btw, my post was somewhat towards @Tim Kimberley’s. Myself I don’t see the para-church, or ‘the Church’ for that matter, as being a psychological structure! Indeed the whole psychological biography for example is a modern and now postmodern invention. And being over 60 myself, and an old military type, certainly, is a much different aspect for this now psychological structure. It is hard to see the or a biblical “psychologism” to my mind, i.e. the bases for the historical event/events! One wonders where the Church has “imbibed” this, save in “psychotherapeutics” (psychotherapy). Not really being just negative, but historical and theological! 🙂

    • Pete again

      Hello Fr. Robert,

      Would you mind clarifying please? Did you mean to say that leaders of the historical Church did NOT write specifically about, or directly address, psychological issues like depression?

      Thanks,

    • Stacy

      Michael,

      I’m always encouraged and touched by your posts. For those of us who are always struggling with belief due to depression and/or anxiety, it is always such a blessing to see someone who believes in spite of all the obstacles and tragedies. It gives me hope that I too might be able to hold on as well. I wanted to thank you for all you do. I was compelled especially after this post to write a comment (my first here) and suggest a song. This song always cheers me up when I just wish He would hurry up and get over with it. It’s called “Wait a little longer please Jesus” by Doyle Lawson and Quicksilver off the album Thank God. It’s not much, but sometimes a cute bluegrass song can turn the tide.

    • Ric

      May God’s peace be with you.

    • Tiago

      This is really touching. I have had some moments like these(tough not near as severe), and already had prayers much like yours…
      It is somewhat comforting knowing that Im not the only one.
      I have no idea what else could be said, but this post from here help me http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2012/11/sowing-in-tears/

    • Clint Roberts

      “Where words are scarce, they are seldom spent in vain,
      For they breathe truth that breathe their words in pain.” – John of Gaunt, Richard II

    • @Pete: I am not addressing “depression” per se, but the whole subjective of modern psychotherapy and psychoanalysis! Which has most certainly come to effect the modern and now postmodern church. By this I am speaking historically of the psychological disorders pioneered by Freud, etc. Working as a hospital chaplain I see this quite often with many Christians.

    • william

      Hi Michael,

      Thank you. You saved my life.
      Thank you.

    • Pete again

      Fr. Robert, thx for the clarification. I am specifically saying that depression has been acknowledged by Christian scholars and church fathers since the early centuries, and they have all considered Satan and his demons as the main source and carrier of this illness.

      After all, the first step in healing is understanding the source of the illness. The Greek root of the word “salvation” is “healing”.

      Chrysostom: the most harmful of all Devlish action is depression. It is through depression that the Devil dominates victims.

      Evagrios: the demon of depression cuts off and dries up every pleasure of the soul.

      Dorotheos: it is certain that these cases of depression were due to the influence of demons.

      The Church that Christ founded has, over the centuries, taught the faithful many preventative tools that are effective in defeating the sin of depression. Unfortunately, in latter days many have discarded these tools and traditions.

      The father of lies has successfully convinced most of the world that he doesn’t exist, much less that he the source of our misery.

    • Pete again

      Fr. Robert, thx for the clarification. I am specifically saying that depression has been acknowledged by Christian scholars and church fathers since the early centuries, and they have all considered Satan and his demons as the main source and carrier of this illness.

      After all, the first step in healing is understanding the source of the illness. The Greek root of the word “salvation” is “healing”.

      Chrysostom: the most harmful of all Devlish action is depression. It is through depression that the Devil dominates victims.

      Evagrios: the demon of depression cuts off and dries up every pleasure of the soul.

      Dorotheos: it is certain that these cases of depression were due to the influence of demons.

      The Church that Christ founded has, over the centuries, taught the faithful many preventative tools that are effective in defeating the sin of depression. Unfortunately, in latter days many have discarded these tools and traditions.

    • @Pete: Amen, our enemies are ‘the world, the flesh and the devil’!

    • Susan

      ruben,

      If you would care to hear a great encouraging series of sermons on The Eternal Kingdom of God I’d invite you to listen to our pastor’s recent sermon series at lbcc.org . This past Sunday was about heaven. It certainly doesn’t hurt to have that in our sites!

      Blessings to you and Michael, our steadfast wounded captain.

    • Michael

      Thanks Michael for sharing your heart…I love your honesty. I just preached yesterday in chapel on depression and was struck by Matthew’s words in 9.36, “when he saw the crowds, he had compassion for them, because they were harassed and helpless, like a sheep without a shepherd.” I just want you to know I’m thankful for you.

    • anonymous

      Dear Michael,

      Never forget….’nothing is wasted in the Hands of our Redeemer.’

      you are not just enduring, your trials are producing for you..an eternal weigh of glory far beyond all comparison; and just as the sufferings of Christ are ours in abundance, so also our comfort is abundant through Christ. 2 Cor 1:5 ; 2 Cor 4:16

      and will not God bring about justice for His elect who cry to Him day and night, and will He delay long over them? I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?” Luke 18:7-8

      with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. 2 Pet 3:8-9

      Don’t lose heart…rejoice.

    • ruben

      Hi susan, thanks I will listen to the sermon. I hope you did not think that I do not believe in Heaven that’s not the case. I just think its wrong to think that God’s kingdom will come after we die or when Christ returns, I think it is here and something we should celebrate and give us purpose. Death and sin and evil has been defeated Christ is Lord now and that makes me have reason to regain hope.

    • theoldadam

      It’s a crappy life in so many ways. And yet it can be beautiful, as well.

      I often yell at God and ask Him what He’s waiting for. But He is patient.

      And He will help us endure to the end.

      Hang in there, Michael.

    • Susan

      Ruben, I think that both are true, that there is a presence of God’s kingdom among believers as his Spirit indwells them and allows them to live as God intended, but that the fulness of His kingdom is yet to come…when there will be no sin, pain, tears, and when Satan and those who reject Jesus will be cast into hell. N. T. Wright very much blurs heaven and hell and how people come to salvation one individual at a time and are thus transformed by the Spirit. Because of this I wouldn’t recommend reading him.

      I would actually recommend listening to our pastor’s sermon series from the beginning. In some ways he corrects misconceptions about the kingdom of God. You will probably hear him say some things that aren’t in agreement with Wright. I’d be interested to hear what you think, if you listen. Even the introductory sermon mentions the various views of the kingdom.

    • Amen! The brilliant NT Wright is a “supersessional” train-wreck, theologically!

    • CMP, you wrote: “So why am I mad? Maybe this is really weird, but I am mad that he has not come back yet…” Funny that I’ve shared this very angst all of these years and often wondered if others are in this same place. You dear friend, have been my instructor/mentor and I for the most part remain silent. I want you to know, Brother to Brother, that I also share in this grief. It is really not so much a directed anger toward God in my case, and I get the impression that it may be a kind of anxious anticipation that comes off as anger. I’ve gone through many times like this, still do. We hold on to Our Blessed Hope, we endure these trials and tribulations, we anticipate the fulfillment of His Kingdom to Come. Christ told us to be prepared and wait, for the hour is at hand. We may never fully get it on this side of heaven, but it really is a matter of just how obedient we are willing to be, and we wait. I can’t offer you anything that will remove the burden of the pain, but be assured you are not alone in bearing this Cross. The weight of the wood can just about break us, but by His stripes, we are already healed. We must let that sink in deep into our souls, because it is all we have to hold on to, this is what will get us through it all, even if we do break. It’s all good, don’t trip.

    • Bill T

      I am praying for you and you are making a difference. What I have seen what you all are doing there is great. You were here in Dallas area until the Lord directed you to Oklahoma. You have made a difference here and still do. We talk about you often and pray for you and the family so you are not forgotten. You have family here that loves you here.

    • EricW

      @Susan 23. & 28.: I don’t see a series at that link about The Eternal Kingdom of God. The recent one you implied he preached April 14 is about Marriage and the one the week before was about weight loss.

    • JS

      Thank you for posting this. I find that when we read His Word, this sense of groaning does seem appropriate to this life, though we are filled with a joy for a hope that cannot be taken away… and yet so many in the world and even in Christian circles seem to think it wrong to feel this way, taking an overly optimistic view of THIS life, suspecting that any such difficult state must indicate a lack of faith. I must agree that the area with which I find myself principally frustrated and angry with God, reluctantly surrendering to His sovereignty, is the very fact that He has not come yet. We cry, come Lord Jesus! I still struggle with crying out to the Lord in this pain and asking Him to give me the faith, love for others, and patience to live on for Him. Perhaps for that I can say I do lack faith. For we live because to us, to live is Christ and to die is gain…as I know you are living, in faith, that Christ would be glorified, though we would much rather depart and be with Christ. Praying for you. Praying for all of us pilgrims in this life, who are living yet as exiles as we await the final promised land – the new heavens and new earth.

    • Susan

      Eric and ruben, Our pastor hasn’t ever preached a sermon on weight loss!

      My link was wrong! I meant cclb.org (Cornerstone Church Long Beach, CA). When you get there click ‘links and downloads’ (I think). You should be able to see the sermon series. It lasted for about three months. You can watch the video or listen to the audio. This coming Sunday will be the last in the series. It is possible to watch it live-streamed on Sunday morning as well. Our pastor is on the board at Biola college and Talbot Seminary as well.

    • EricW

      Christ told us to be prepared and wait, for the hour is at hand.

      Christ told those he was speaking to to be prepared and wait. He told those he was preaching to that the hour was at hand. He wasn’t speaking to us except by our own subjective hermeneutic or personal transference of his words.

      Nearly all the writers of the NT, including the Gospel authors, wrote things that said or implied that they expected Jesus’ return in their own or their contemporary readers’ lifetimes. Revelation says 8 times that Jesus was coming soon, for the time was near.

      Yet nearly 2,000 years later we’re still waiting.

      Someone has said that the church’s biggest problem – or the New Testament’s biggest credibility problem – is that Jesus has not yet returned. Every generation since the first century has expected his return in their lifetime, and has interpreted the signs of their own times accordingly.

      How long, O Lord?

      Another 2,000 years, perhaps?

      Or 3,000?

      Or 4,000?

      Or never?

      Are the Preterists right?

    • No full Preterism! 2 Peter 3: 4, etc. ; Zech. 14 / Rev. 1: 7 / Acts 1: 7-12 / Matt. 23: 37-39 (noting too Matt. 24: 3). Btw, the Times of the Gentiles is coming down to an end in apostasy! (Lk. 21: 24) “So that a day is coming when the nations will cease to tread it down, and it will be possessed by its rightful owner – Israel.” That Day, will be on the glorified earth…of the New Creation!

      Here is a hermeneutical verse, 1 Cor. 10:32, “Give no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God.” Literally it is to become without offense! And yet, the Jews and especially the Jewish Nation, i.e. National Israel, are very much an offense in these “days”! (Daniel 9 and 12)

    • Susan

      Eric,

      2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some regard slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not wish for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

      God speaks in terms of all of eternity. We think in finite terms. God is waiting for more people to respond to the gospel, to realize their need for forgiveness through Jesus so that they can escape the wrath of God against sin (our just penalty). Are you ready for judgment day?

    • Recovering

      “That Jesus fellow. . . . Boy, he works in ways I don’t get. He makes me tired. He is so confusing. But I have nowhere else to go.”

      This resonates so much with me! Thank you – it’s on my desk where I can see it daily now. Where else can we go? He has the words of life.

    • EricW

      @Susan 34.:

      You wrote:

      God is waiting for more people to respond to the gospel, to realize their need for forgiveness through Jesus so that they can escape the wrath of God against sin

      Actually, according to 2 Peter, God is waiting for the church to get it right:

      3:8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. 11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, 12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God,…

      So until the church gets its act together and its members start living the kinds of lives that Peter says will hasten the Lord’s coming, I don’t expect to see His return anytime soon. Based on the church’s past performance, I’d say we’re looking at another 2-3,000 years or so.

    • Susan

      The text doesn’t say that His return is contingent on the behavior of the Church…as in the church needs to behave.

      “that all should reach repentance” refers to sinners recognizing their need for a Savior, believing and repenting, so that they will be saved. The ‘behavior’ then, that the church should be engaged in, is the verbal proclamation of the Gospel so that people will be saved. The church has largely lost sight of this in recent years and focused disproportionately on social justice (which helps people in this life but does nothing to save them from the eternal wrath of God).

    • Indeed the so-called seeming delay of the Lord’s Coming is “toward you” (2 Peter 3: 9).. “not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.” This can only refer to God’s elect & chosen people! Note the contrast of 2 Pet. 3: 7..”kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.”; as too 3: 16…”which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.”

      And btw, the Post-Mill position is simply dead! I held this eschatological position myself for a few years back in the late 80’s and to about 1990. Then I went to Gulf War 1 (an RMC, Royal Marine Commando, recon officer). And then later (late 90’s), I lived and taught in Israel. Now I am Historic Pre-Mill, and something of a PD (Progressive Dispensationalist), and yes a “Biblical” Zionist! 😉

      “He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.” (surely) Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.” (Rev. 22: 20)

    • EricW

      Nope. It’s about the church growing in holiness, a process which hastens the Lord’s coming.

      And as I said, based on past and present performance, it’s probably going to be quite some time before we see the Lord’s return – millennia, perhaps. That’s why he says 1,000 years is like a day – i.e., the Lord may not return for as long a time as the earth had existed before Peter (or whoever) wrote his “2 Peter” letter. But that shouldn’t dissuade them from doing their best to hasten his return, even if that “day” would be several “days” (i.e., 1,000-year periods) in the future.

    • Sorry mate, your position is an exegetical mess! The only way Christians advance and so-called “hasten” the Lord’s purposes and fulfillment, and in any way the Lord’s return, is with the message (kerygma, Gk) of the Gospel! (Noting the whole of 2 Thess. 2, especially verses 8-14, etc.

      Btw, the Church WILL see the Antichrist! (1 John 2: 18, with 2 Thess). Note I am over 60, and have seen the loss of the Judeo-Christian in my lifetime!

    • See btw, the site: PreteristArchive.com, it is a fair site, noting all the many different positions and people here! But full preterists have the worst of it, biblically-theologically!

    • EricW

      Nope, mine’s not the mess. History affirms and confirms it. And, as the author of 2 Peter wrote, some people misunderstand Paul’s words, including 2 Thessalonians.

    • Here is a site towards the great Alva McClain (RIP), perhaps his book and work on the Kingdom of God is no doubt one of the very best!

      http://www.graphebooks.org/mcthouajmc57.html

    • So let’s see this “historical affirmation” for the Post-Mill (textually)? As too the so-called proper exegesis for 2 Thessalonians?

      Btw, the “historicism” method is now almost nil with most modern scripture scholars! This was the view of many Puritans, and is really outdated today, theologically. But Futurist Historical Premillennialism goes back to the Ante-Nicene Christian Chiliasts, Irenaeus, Papias, Justin, Tertullian, etc.

    • EricW

      I’ve said nothing about postmillennialism. You make too much of my comments.

    • Oh I beg to differ, your speaking about postmillennialism…and ya know it! 😉 So again, lets see some biblical exegesis, especially for 2 Thessalonians!

    • EricW

      No, I don’t know it. I have NEVER had an eschatology except to believe that there is a “last thing(s)” of some sort. I read Revelation more for worship than anything, if I read it at all. Like I said, you’re trying too hard.

    • @Eric: Just “being” theological myself, ya might try it! 😉 And there is no reason for us to continue, since your not eschatologically literate!

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