“We are on the verge—within 10 years—of a major collapse of evangelical Christianity. This breakdown will follow the deterioration of the mainline Protestant world and it will fundamentally alter the religious and cultural environment in the West.”
I did not write this. It comes from my friend Michael Spencer in his recently published article in the Christian Science Monitor. It is the introductory statement to a wonderfully provocative argument concerning, what Michael believes to be the coming fall of Evangelicalism.
While Michael and I share many of the same concerns (in fact, when I read his thoughts on this subject I wonder if we were not separated at birth), I am not quite as pessimistic about the future of Evangelicalism as he is.
I will add my contribution to this issue, hoping to give Michael’s propositions support while giving a slightly different perspective.
What is going to happen (Michael’s future “prophetic” vision for Evangelicalism):
Michael believes that “Within two generations, evangelicalism will be a house deserted of half its occupants” and that “This collapse will herald the arrival of an anti-Christian chapter of the post-Christian West.” As well, “public policy will become hostile toward evangelical Christianity, seeing it as the opponent of the common good.” He goes on, “Millions of Evangelicals will quit. Thousands of ministries will end. Christian media will be reduced, if not eliminated. Many Christian schools will go into rapid decline. I’m convinced the grace and mission of God will reach to the ends of the earth. But the end of evangelicalism as we know it is close.”
I will talk about this in a moment. Right now, I want bypass the “what”” and look at the “why?”
In a section entitled “Why this is going to happen?” Michael proceeds to give us the “State of the Nation” of Evangelicalism; seven reasons why Evangelicalism is in its current condition. I want to look at the first four.
1. First, Michael believes that Evangelicals have become too closely identified with the political right. Being identified as such, he believes that “Public leaders will consider us bad for America, bad for education, bad for children, and bad for society.” Michael says that “Being against gay marriage and being rhetorically pro-life will not make up for the fact that massive majorities of Evangelicals can’t articulate the Gospel with any coherence.”
It is a very sad fact that Evangelicals (taken from the root evangel which means “Gospel”) are almost universally hard pressed to articulate the Gospel in a way that represents the biblical and historic heritage of the message. Without the Gospel, all the social values we can muster amount to nothing. I have said this before: right practice without a foundation is rubbish. We have replaced the Gospel with a message that simply mourns over the statistics of social concerns. Mourning over the sins of our nation and political identification will come. Try as you might to completely separate them, Christians—evangelical Christians—will always support the political party that lines up most faithfully with our values. It is our duty to do so. But these values are not the Gospel. If you can defend these values more than you can the Person and Work of Christ, you have the cart before the horse.
2. Second, Michael says “We Evangelicals have failed to pass on to our young people an orthodox form of faith that can take root and survive the secular onslaught.” Not only have we failed to pass it on, we are at a point where those who are supposed to pass it on simply can’t because they never received it in the first place! We are two, maybe three, generations beyond this ability. We are simply running out of people who are even qualified in any sense to pass on “orthodoxy.” The faith “once for all delivered to the saints” somehow got lost in the mail. Those who suppose they are passing it on are passing on their own orthodoxy which they have created based upon the eternal value of their own opinions. There are not many, especially within Evangelicalism, who can trace the faith beyond their own conversion experience. A faith such as this, has no business surviving. Orthodoxy needs to be resent.
3. Third, Michael believes that “There are three kinds of evangelical churches today: consumer-driven megachurches, dying churches, and new churches whose future is fragile. Denominations will shrink, even vanish, while fewer and fewer evangelical churches will survive and thrive.” I am not quite so pessimistic, but I do think he has his finger on the wrist area. Denominations need to survive, but their reasons for existence need to experience a philosophical overhaul. The divide and territorialism has become a stench for the church and this coming generation will have none of it. Evangelicalism as an idea is supposed to unite Christians of a variety of backgrounds under common essentials. Not only is this not being accomplished in pop-Church today, but it is not even an aspiration. Many don’t even know the name of the umbrella under which they find themselves and, frankly, they don’t seem to care. If the umbrella is anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, and anti-Obama, then Michael is right . . . we are done for.
4. Michael says, “Despite some very successful developments in the past 25 years, Christian education has not produced a product that can withstand the rising tide of secularism.” If what he means by “product” is the beliefs and understanding of the average Evangelical, I agree. Most people are running scared from even the least threatening attacks from the outside. When they do respond, it amounts to pop and cliche apologetics, which often evidences a gross lack of understanding of the concerns of our generation. We have simply not discipled people in 50 years. We don’t even know what it means to disciple anymore, equating it with accountability groups and small group Purpose Driven Life studies. People need to be taught much more deeply and fundamentally.
Michael gives his evaluation at the end. To sum up, he believes that Evangelicalism is a hopeless cause and that we need to look for new life on new Gospel frontiers. I don’t really follow him here (at least in the way he is communicating). I also believe that CPR can be done as there is still a pulse to Evangelicalism. What Michael describes is pop-Evangelicalism which is defined by the masses and the media. “For they are not all Evangelical who have descended from Evangelical.” I believe that there is still a very strong representation of those who carry the dignity of what it truly means to be Evangelical.
What Do We Need to Do? My Evangelical Bailout Package:
- We need to reform. There has to be stronger accountability from the top down and from the bottom up. The identity crisis that Evangelicals are going through can come to an end. I think that there needs to be some strong leadership that steps up and is ecumenically minded enough to include all those who proclaim the evangel, but wise enough to know where and when to draw lines of demarcation. This can start right now.
- We need to be our own spokespeople. We cannot let the media define us. People such as James Dobson can keep applying the Gospel to social issues with great passion, but they need to be careful to not let the media manipulate the identity of Christianity with their narrower concerns (as important as many of us think they are). This can start right now.
- People simply need to be discipled. Keep offering the Every Man’s Battle book studies and provide a contemporary service at 12pm. I don’t care. What I do care about is that we create a real and serious assumption that being a Christian presupposes a belief and identity with the historic Christian faith. Call it catechism, call it membership, call it whatever, but when people trust Christ they need to know and understand the faith they have accepted. There is content, assent, and trust to our faith. If people don’t like history, if people don’t like theology, if they are dyslexic, or ADD, I don’t care. There is no excuse for us birthing people and setting them out on the streets, ignorant as newborns. The Christian faith must be taken more seriously. Yes, this will mean less people—get used to it. This can start right now.
- There needs to be a better ordination process within Evangelicalism. When any Joel, Benny, Brian, or Joyce can claim to be an Evangelical without qualification, we know that we have lost our identity. This ordination does not have to come from a specific united Evangelical institution, but from an assumed basis built upon the traditions we represent. This can start right now.
- Denominations and traditions need to recognize the centrality of the Person and Work of Christ. Baptists, Presbytarians, Lutherans, Calvinists, Arminian, Reformed, Dispensational, and all other Protestant denominations and traditions need to identify with a revived Evangelical center all the while keeping their distinctives. We need an anchor, not boundaries. Church and denominational territorialism needs to come to an end. I have seen situations where most of the pastors in a city did not know each other and had never met. Some of them were right across the street from each other! Why all the peeing on trees? This is tragic. This represents a massive loss in focus on the evangel and is completely contrary to the spirit of Evangelicalism. There needs to be much more unity in our diversity. This can start right now.
- There needs to be more focus on semi-official Evangelical para-Evangelical ministries. It would be the responsibility of these ministries to provide public relations support (including press releases), education, and church and school “approval” boards that accept applications to be included in a sort of “society of historic Evangelical churches and schools.” We already have these to some degree as separate organizations, but they don’t have much public light or legitimacy. This can start right now.
- We need to quit being so scared of becoming institutionalized. If we follow these principles, there are plenty of measures and check-and-balances that can be put into place which would prevent institutionalization and ensure that we still get things done. This can start right now.
This is my Evangelical Bailout Package. I think we can get it done. It can start right now.
What do you think? Is Evangelicalism hopeless?
67 replies to "My Evangelical Bailout Package"
I believe Protestantism is breathing its last breaths. As denominationalism grew and grew (and especially after the explosion of denominationalism in the last century), the common ground for Protestants became weaker and weaker until the “essentials” were so watered down that a person could be a “good Christian” by literally doing their very least (eg giving the option as to whether or not attend church on Sunday). The ‘options’ were maintain some structure and be accused of being “legalistic” in your Gospel, OR keep cutting slack until the “legalistic” charge was dropped (and thus find youself in a totally watered down state).
Other factors like divorce and remarriage SANCTIONED by Protestant pastors totally undermined Christian morality at its very core. When a generation of people grow up divorced and remarried along with the OK of their pastor, then it’s virtual church sponsored adultery. From there the limits of Christian morality (eg contraception, masturbation, abortion, etc) were pushed such that there became no unifying code of morality anymore.
In my understanding, very few seem to realize the danger of the “extinction” of Evangelicalism. While I don’t believe Evangelicalism will become literally extinct, I think we have come to this sorry state, because of the lack of proper theological education. Because many Christians are theologically illiterate, Joel, Joyce et al, know that they can teach anything they want and people will buy it. And many Christians do not seem to desire to know Christianity’s roots, how the Bible was put together, to know about other religions so that they explain the Gospel more intelligently, more sadly, many Christians can not even articulate the Gospel. With so many critical concerns, no wonder Evangelicalism has cut a sorry figure. However, I think there is still hope, and Michael has given us a game-plan. Hope ALL take heed!
Now is this because of necessity (because once you can articulate the “biblical/historical” message you probably are no longer an “evangelical”) or ignorance? Or is it because the biblical/historical message itself is not articulated for humans to understand (ie. the incompatibility of faith vs. works, grace vs. justice, morally ambiguous deity, etc.)?
I do not mean for this to sound belittling, but it appears to be fairly common sense. Those who care enough about their religiosity/spirituality go either into pastoral studies, apologetics/theology or “evangelical” ministry. The first tends towards pop-psychology, the second is almost non-existent, and the third is flooded with people who can say “Jesus loves you” but know almost nothing about Christian history or theology. The strength of conservative Protestantism is not in their leadership nor their apologetics/theology, but on their evangelical fervor. This is the reason it cannot sustain itself. It has more short-term pragmatic use than long-term validity.
Nick
Protestantism does not have significantly more denominations than Catholicism.
Further, Protestantism has made a significant impact in worldwide missions with thriving churches in Africa, Asia, and elsewhere.
***
I don’t know Michael? It seems like the US situation is different from other Western countries. Perhaps it will resemble places like the UK and Australia.
[quote]test quote[/quote] end
No
Great ideas Michael. I’ve got two questions for you and for any commenters.
1. How would you “articulate the Gospel in a way that represents the biblical and historic heritage of the message?”
2. How do you define discipleship?
I think the issue also highlights the changes happening around evangelicalism.
There was a time when Christian and civil insitutions worked together to provided a moral and ethical framework for communities. Christians provided a Christian worldview to anchor the morals and ethics. That is on the declined and has slipped much further in highly mobile communities and very poor communities.
The media has replaced these institutions and provides a hodge-podge of contradictory worldviews from Benny Hinn to new age gurus. People dont know what to believe anymore and treats it all as trivial. This cynicism is pretty obvious in that people have decided to seek their own spiritual path.
One of the big mistakes evangelicalism made was it used the same methods and formulas that media industries used. The problem is that media is not a neutral tool and communicates only one way.
This, in and of itself, has led people to view all choice as an inherent individual right and the Bible simply became a prop.
How do you use the media responsibly and unplug people at the same time?
The Gospel is offense! It convicts and cuts to the heart, which is uncomfortable. It’s far easier, and more palitable to the masses, to apply Christian morals to our daily life. Manage money God’s way. Discipline your children or yourself the Christian way. Have a happy Christian Marriage. What can God do for you and here’s how to make him give you what you want.
Today, we must be politically correct and sensitive, in order to be popular and loved.
While being a Southern Baptist, this is my largest complaint with the typical Baptist tradition.
Thankfully, we’re not the only ones who strongly believe the Gospel needs to be reintroduced to the saints. Reformation starts with education a few with the courage to speak out.
So basically we may go back just as it was in the beginning of Christianity (when it was illegal)?
The Christian faith may be dwindling, but there is always a remnant.
I think we need to take J. P. Moreland’s advice and really work towards cultivating the Christian mind.
Thanks for the information. It comes as no surprise, however. Anyone even casually looking at the events taking place in our neighborhoods, communities, states, country, & around the globe can perceive that the Church has become impotent as a vechicle for moral & spiritual change. The ‘Church,’ in general, remains ineffective as ‘salt’ & ‘light’ in the world. God’s people will grow through adversity & a return to the Bible.
I believe Kara is onto something… let’s not under-estimate our God or believe for a minute that He needs us to accomplish His purpose.
It has been a while since I was close to this situation, but there were many DTS grads who could not find work in the ministry. Ergo, many soldiers out there well equipped to carry on the work of teaching and discipling.
Let’s each take responsibility for joining the Lord in His work!
Kara and Brett, while it may be true that Christian numbers are not growing so much in the U.S. now, the numbers are exploding in other parts of the world, such as parts of Africa (Burkina Faso for one)…… and still in Korea….. they are now training missionaries to go into other parts of the world. And God is reaching Muslims through visions in many parts of the world. God’s Spirit moves where he will.
I think that Michael Spencer had a lot of worthwhile things to say in this article.
Take heed!
First, “full disclosure”: I am a former Evangelical/pastor/apologist for 27 years of my adult life (and about 14 since). Thus, I DESIRE major change toward more discipleship, less “ticket to heaven” emphasis, tho I am personally quite satisfied outside “the fold.” Also, I hope to see much more “getting clear,” especially among serious students/scholars of “historic Christian faith,” that the supposed tie to literal history just isn’t there. The central emphasis on the virgin birth, incarnation, bodily resurrection and “soon” (since Paul’s time!) return of Christ will have to change.
The reason: Evangelicalism, and in less overt ways, it’s conservative predecessors, have created and relied on a set of false connections. E.g., that the concepts of divine-human reconciliation (and resulting “discipleship”) were and could only be conveyed via a truly living/dying/rising God-man, Jesus. From the very time of the writing of the Gospels and Acts (technically NOT Paul, if he is carefully read), there has been concerted effort (early forms of “spin”) to ground this powerful story in actual history. In Luke attempting this, quite successfully as to effect (though not factuality), he and the other “Evangelists”–properly so-called–created a “myth of beginnings.” That has effectively supported the Christian foundation which was the mix of an innovative Messiah figure with invented details of history, particularly around the passion/resurrection and the concept of apostolic authority. Neither of these (details of Jesus’ life/death/resurrection or his conferring authority to “apostles” and their leadership of earliest Christianity) really have any true historical authentication. And the claims of the Gospels/Acts cry out for such, and we SHOULD expect it!
This has only very gradually been realized and adapted to, by some, while staunchly resisted by others, since about the mid 1700s. The realization and further study of it accelerated in the 1800s and then retraced some, consolidating and advancing with more focus in the 1900s to present. But even much of the LIBERAL church STILL resists coming to terms with the implications, let alone Evangelicalism. However, there is no going back on the insights, which are more “modern” than they are “postmodern,” tho they fit in fine with the latter.
In other words, it is not “relativism,” and only partially “deconstruction” that makes the foundational theology of Evangelicalism demonstrably wrong. It is wrong because the literalist branch of the new religion of Christianity gradually gained ascendancy and ultimately, control of channels of authority (and communication/education). Thus they could superimpose that history/story mix, with little “reality check,” back onto the time of Jesus and his first followers.
For what it’s worth, this bare outline of understanding has only developed with high confidence for me after many hundreds–probably thousands–of hours of reading, thinking, re-thinking, more study, etc., etc. I was NOT satisfied to take it on the word of one or even a handful or scholars or popular writers, important as it all is. But the ideas are prominent enough now throughout Western societies, that youth tend to accept them more “on faith,” without really understanding them. The are sometimes even mixed with their “Evangelical” faith, which they poorly understand as well–not much intellectual rigor in ANY direction!
[…] C. Michael Patton, Parchment and Pen: “I am not quite as pessimistic about the future of Evangelicalism as he is.” […]
While I do appreciate Howard Pepper’s disclosure, I staunchly disagree with many of his substantive arguments. I wish I had more time to rebut, but suffice to say that I too have spent a good amount of time examing, praying, reflecting, and meditating on various interconnected, inter-related doctrines and teachings of biblical, historical Christianity, and I and many, many other Christians are of a diametrically opposite mindset and heartset than Howard Pepper’s with regards to Christianity.
As Mr. Pepper demonstrates here, education will not guarantee orthodox disciples. I’m not picking on Mr. Pepper, but I’d be willing to pick on Tony Jones who went to seminary at Princeton.
Nevertheless, those of us who understand the need to make disciples should be taking interest in the believers around us and encouraging them in the faith, which will be different in every relationship. We need to initiate, since there is abundant free material, but not abundant motivation. “Go” and “make” are not passive participles in Jesus’ commission. It should happen formally and informally, structured and unstructured, in season and out of season.
The gates of hell will not prevail against the church, but the church might grow in more fertile soil elsewhere.
God is good
jpu
Sadly CMP–It could happen. BUT in all likelihood will not because the powers that be like having power and when they join forces with others must give some of their power up. The masses want country clubs and safe places for their children and entertainment. But that is the cynic talking.
If I say okay to this: “People simply need to be discipled…What I do care about is that we create a real and serious assumption that being a Christian presupposes a belief and identity with the historic Christian faith. Call it catechism, call it membership, call it whatever, but when people trust Christ they need to know and understand the faith they have accepted. There is content, assent, and trust to our faith. If people don’t like history, if people don’t like theology, if they are dyslexic, or ADD, I don’t care. There is no excuse for us birthing people and setting them out on the streets, ignorant as newborns. The Christian faith must be taken more seriously. Yes, this will mean less people—get used to it.” What specifically is it they must know? How long do you propose it takes? What do we do with those who come in broken? And when we finally get all that what do we do with it? I’m not making excuses (dyslexia, et. als.). I am asking what and when is enough enough? How and when do we push our little birdie disciples out of the nest and expect them to start being servants for more than the coffee hour between services!!??
CS Lewis once wrote about how words lose meaning over time – his example was the word “Sir” that once was a title of honor limited to distinguished men who had earned it from some sort of service to their country. By his day, EVERYONE was called “sir.”
The same can be said for “Christian.” Christian has become basically synonymous with “Westerner.” Most countries are defined by their national religion – Arabs are Muslims, Indians are Hindus, Asians are Buddhist . . . (with exceptions, of course) – and Westerners are “Christian.”
As such, most Western people who aren’t staunchly part of a specific other religion or who are atheist will identify themselves as Christian, even though they don’t know anything about Jesus or the Bible.
Susan
We need to include a history lesson in all this. African civilizations have been around for thousands of years, whereas we have been here only around 300. They had the Gospel long before we did. There have been Christian Churches in parts of Africa for a long time.
Take for instance the Coptic Christians. Coptic is not a religious denomination but ethnic Egyptians who refused to be taken over by the Arab invaders who forced Islam. Christian missionaries have been into all parts of Asia. Thomas preached in Chennai, India. So to think we are at the beginning of their Gospel reach is absurd because American and British missionaries have been there for hundreds of years. Even in China there were missionaries before the Communist takeover.
So we have to ask ourselves, what happened in those great civilizations that caused them to lose the message of the Gospel? I will say, they lost their zeal and it is happening now as we speak in American churches.
It is very wonderful that preachers like Rheinhard Bohnnke would be there preaching to massive crowds and thousands coming to know the Lord. My question is this, are there no teachers there teaching them how to live daily as a Christian?
I agree the Evangelical church is in danger, I have been in church my whole life and as a 40 year old, I see what is happening. There are things tearing it down and the biggest one I see is favoritism.
Promotion on basis of whether you spend the most money, wear the right clothing brand or just simply have the coolest sounding name. It is against God to look on people and promote them because you like them. We are supposed to be separate from the world and in most churches you can’t tell what is holy and what is secular. If we are falling, it is our own fault because we allowed it to happen.
But this is all going according to the plan of God and it very plainly says in the last days “because that wickedness shall abound, the love of many will wax cold”.
It is great that thousands of people go to these wonderful meetings and thousands are saved, but what makes me wonder is this, is not the Gospel supposed to bring change? And if these countries do not change, what is going on? Why the next year does another preacher go and thousands of people are saved..but no change…then another and another and another and nothing in those countries change.
There will always be a remnant who never bowed to Baal. There has to be real change. Otherwise it’s just a guy with a nice suit saying some nice things about how nice God is, and how nice Jesus was. This country is going to fall, pure and simple because no culture can survive without God. The one thing I admire about Jews is that through all their persecutions, they have unbroken tradition. They were forced to move, they were diasporized into and out of so many countries but still have unbroken tradition.
Jesus said we are the salt…if the salt lose it’s savor it is only good for being thrown out and trampled on. We have lost our savor, and the world knows it.
But there will always be a remnant.
Kara, I’m aware that there have been Christians in Africa for thousands of years, and I’m aware of the Coptic Christians. I was merely mentioning some areas of the world where Christianity is currently on the rise, and the gospel is spreading like wildfire.
Very good observations. More evangelicals can tell you about the Left Behind Series than about the development of the historic creeds of the church, the early struggles against heresies, the early councils, the great reformation, the Scottish Reformation, the English Reformation, the basic history and distinctives of the larger denominations, etc. I am sick of what’s been called Rapture Fever and the resultant escapism and individualism that characterizes most evangelicals that I know.
God has provided remedies for this pickle we’ve gotten ourselves into. There are reformational movements afoot just under the surface. Christ accomplished his redemption of the world in the first century, took his seat at the right hand of God his Father and rules with power and majesty.
This ugly mess will force many to rethink what they believe and rededicate themselves to follow Christ not men. We will indeed suffer here in the west, but great blessings will follow.
SJW
http://www.truthinliving.org
Again, my point is…when did they lose it to have to re-find it now? Perhaps it is because they have learned that a country who does not recognize Jesus is doomed for failure. Islam is failing them, Buddhism and Hinduism is failing them and so is all the folk and magick pagan religions.
But when did it happen that they lost it?
When a person who has God and then denies and rejects Him, what is left?
When a nation denies and rejects God…how much greater the calamity and the crawl back toward Him.
“Oh how great the fall of that man”. This is not meant to be ethno-racist…or even gloating, but it should be taken as a warning. What makes me the saddest is seeing babies covered with sores and malnourished and dying and yet their parents having more and more without thought of what they are doing to their children…that makes me angry. Churches all over the world donating…and nothing changes.
The rate of HIV in Swaziland is 51%, this is fact, not propaganda. And people who have turned away from Jesus and remain Muslim…it is inexcusable. Christians in Africa and Asia are beheaded, shot, tortured, forced into slavery and killed in so many other ways…and the American Christians go to fellowship Sunday morning and worry about whether or not they should paint the fellowship hall green or purple.
Before we fall into the same, we need to come off our self-righteous pedestals and see that there is a world hurting because of the turning away.
I say no more favoritism, no more clamoring over music, no more derisiveness over what donuts are better, no more he-said she-said….it is time for us now who present the Gospel, to walk in it.
[…] of evangelical Christianity, evangelical bailout package, michael spencer by Roger Servin Michael Patton responds to IMonk’s article on his concern that we are the verge of a major collapse of evangelical […]
In 1949 and part of 1950 my dad was required by his boss, a Christian Scientist to attend his church, if that is what you wish to call it. I was forced to attend also by my Dad. I saw nothing wonderful about their group. If Evangelicals become short in attendance, perhaps the Christian Scientist should switch because the Evangelicals will possibly have been Raptured. Bill B.
Thank you, Michael, for bringing this to my attention. I passed it on to several groups in hope to stir up something that would pass for a “Holy boldness”
But I must admit having been passed over by some 1500 churches in America as while “more than qualified, We prefer to go in a different direction” has been the hue and cry by those who have for all intents and purposes taken over “The Church” to make it more palatable to the many who support everything but the “preaching of the Word”. The Protestant church needs to be taught by those who desire to bring the term “Christian” back from the disrepute that it has received in recent years. Perhaps its not too late as you suggest I for one pray that we will recover from this shabby example of today’s “Christianity.
As I see it, Protestant ecclesiology is too poverty stricken to avoid continual decay. Traditional mainline can’t survive because they have no ecclesiology or theology that supports doing things traditionally. Mega churches rise because they cater for populism, but how long pop Christianity will keep people satisfied is an open question. The little local baptist church survives because it is local and convenient, but that may not be quite enough going forward. I predict a continual movement to Catholic and Orthodox because they know where they’re going and they know where they’ve been.
What we need is more trust in Jesus Christ , Gods son . b.b.
You said…
Denominations and traditions need to recognize the centrality of the Person and Work of Christ. Baptists, Presbytarians, Lutherans, Calvinists, Arminian, Reformed, Dispensational, and all other Protestant denominations and traditions need to identify with a revived Evangelical center all the while keeping their distinctives.
As an ex-Evangelical who returned to the original, I am not able to do this. I can not identify with a “revived” Evangelical center.
Evangelicals indeed need to return to the Evangel. But what it made it drift from it is ingrained to its existence. Would Evangelicals throw off its a-historical, a-creedal, a-liturgical philosophy? If it does then it should go back to denominationalism, this is not a bad thing but non-denominationalism will have to go. In the first place it has no idea of a Word and Sacrament, it does not play into its theology or is defined by it.
The type of reformation evangelicals adopted is not conservative but radical and so it over shot primitive Christianity in the process. It was into reconstruction of CHristianity not reformation. The two are not the same.
LPC
I’m not so sure more head knowledge is going to do anything…..or more apologetics…..or more studying of culture. I think the church in the west depends on itself (methods,plans,programs,intellect) rather than on God and His power and leading. I think the churches outside the west should be our example.
I think it’s hard to be a christian in the west because of the west’s emphasis or culture of ‘self reliance’. I think this has crept into the church. It has become about what we have to do to make things right….how we need to think through problems and fix them. I think we have an intellectualized faith. Dr. Martyn Lloyd Jones reffered to this as one of the biggest threats to the church, what he called ‘dead orthodoxy’. Whatever happened to fasting and praying when facing problems? Our faith has become too proper.
[…] C. Michael Patton […]
evangelical is just a word for evangelism…even Muslims are Islamic evangelists. The word is too broad in definition. When we say Christian then we have identified.
Where does Christ work first? Individually…where does Christ work last? Individually. Without Christ we would have no church. We can become evangelists for any other religion. So Christ in us…that is what we need to have, individually, before we can work out there.
Micheal,
I think you forgot the first step! Evangelicals or any other “group” who claims to be Christians will never have a “bailout” until we get on our KNEES and PRAY to GOD ALMIGHTY that HE will bring revival to us!!!! If we do not beseech HIS FACE we are doomed!
Michael,
None of the above. Nothing that either Michael says matters. When people think that 3 wisemen were at the stable, when they can’t do the Terumah without doing taruah, when they don’t know that the disciples did sacrifices until expelled in 68 AD, when you don’t know think that the context the words of Paul were written into a specific point in history to a people in history about a subject in that history, Evangelicalism does not stand a chance. And should not stand a chance.
I see a couple of encouraging things:
1. Younger people (esp. college-age) are wanting to go more in-depth with their beliefs. They are tired of shallow doctrine.
2. The Evangelical church is getting over the whole seeker-sensitive, Purpose-Driven fad (or is it a trend?).
3. The emerging/emergent thing will not last long. I believe that it’s already peaked and is on the way out.
Looks like we’ve forgotten the Church’s One Foundation…
Let’s jog our memory from time to time…
http://songsandhymns.org/hymns/lyrics/the-churchs-one-foundation
As one commentor said, education certainly does not guarantee orthodoxy among disciples. In fact, it sure seems one of the reasons Evangelicalism struggles to upgrade its education level and develop more deep-thinking disciples is that seriously studious people very often LEAVE in the process of digging deeper, as they find fundamental flaws in the building blocks of orthodoxy. (At least that was the case for me, and for a number I know of, though it took me a LOOONG time to see it…. I’d thought I had thoroughly faced and answered all major “objections” to orthodox theology, and felt positively connected to God and other Christians.)
Many others, being less analytical and studious, intuitively (not dependable in and of itself, I realize) sense the problems and lack of consistency and leave as a result, without being able to articulate exactly why. (One can “hear from” hundreds or more of them in the numerous blogs “ex-Christians” like to participate in; no need for extensive surveying projects.) Or they look into Christianity for a while, usually in their teens, and never commit, for that reason or others. So, I do not see that more or better education, more Bible study, etc. will strengthen historic Christianity, unless it honestly faces the foundational flaws and makes appropriate adjustments.
You would actually have to identify those supposed flaws before we could discuss them. You claimed above that the historical Christian religion did not believe in a literal resurrection of Jesus.
Given that the formulators of the early Christian religion were Jews, men raised to believe that resurrection without a body was no resurrection at all (a non physical resurrection they would have claimed to have been Jesus’ angel, much as they did the appearance of Peter after his release from jail) I find that assertion somewhat difficult to swallow.
You make many good points, Michael.
http://b27.cc.trincoll.edu/weblogs/AmericanReligionSurvey-ARIS/reports/ARIS_Report_2008.pdf
Looking at Table 1 in part A of that report, it may be important to realize that the NUMBERS of Catholics and other Christians are still increasing. It’s just that the population of Catholics and other Christians compared to the population of the US as a total is declining in percentage.
Joanie D.
Hey Joanie, where have you been!??
Hi, Leslie. I am still here! I have been spending a lot of time in reading and prayer. I have started attending some daily masses at my local Catholic church and joined a Lenten spiritual development group there. I still cannot be active in the weekend masses as I would like, due to the fact that my husband is not Catholic and wants me to be doing things with him on weekends, but that’s OK. I haven’t been on Theologica very often lately. There are only so many hours in the day, I have noticed!
I hope you and yours are all well.
(Off to work…)
Joanie D.
Yes, we are good, thanks Joanie. Glad you’re active in your church. Trust you and your family are doing well.
Good to have JoanieD back.
Howard-
Interesting point, since the main assumption of Michael Spencer and CMP has been the lack of education and discernment within much of American evangelicalism.
The problem with your take is the fact that countless intellegent and studious people throughout history have looked deeply at the various issues, found the historic claims valid, and therefore still hold to orthodoxy (the author of this blog is one example). Therefore, Michael Spencer and CMP appear to have a valid point about one problem within evangelicalism is the lack of information about the faith (essentials, history, theology, tough questions, etc…).
I am sorry that you (for whatever reason) have come to a different conclusion.
iMonk’s stuff is always very challenging.
Michael (CMP, not iMonk), these highlighted words from your article are particularly beautiful:
‘Try as you might to completely separate them, Christians—evangelical Christians—will always support the political party that lines up most faithfully with our values. It is our duty to do so. But these values are not the Gospel. If you can defend these values more than you can the Person and Work of Christ, you have the cart before the horse.’
Also, can you share why you believe this: ‘Denominations need to survive,’ quoting from your article?
‘”Denominations will shrink, even vanish, while fewer and fewer evangelical churches will survive and thrive.” I am not quite so pessimistic, but I do think he has his finger on the wrist area. Denominations need to survive, but their reasons for existence need to experience a philosophical overhaul.’
The reason evangelicalism is being shaken up is that any ‘ism’ falls short of the kingdom of God, which Hebrews teaches cannot be shaken (Heb 12:26-29). Anything that is shaken and crumbles is actually a good thing because it proves it was not founded on the solid rock of Christ and His kingdom, and a new foundation is needing to be built. Revivalism, evangelicalism, ecumenicalism, or any other ‘ism’ are not necessarily inherently evil. But all ‘isms’ and movements usually get caught up in their own mindset, and this leads to easily steering from the kingdom of God. So a shaking comes and those things that are not kingdom fall. And, again, I believe this is a good thing. Not easy, but good.
If our faith is shattered because evangelicalism collapses, or shrinks, or whatever, then God can use this to rebuild something on the true foundation of His kingdom. It’s challenging, but very good stuff.
The number one complaint I hear from high school students regarding their education is–what’s the point? How is this relevant to my life? When am I ever goiong to use this? I suspect it is the same attitude they have toward their religion and thus they might be educated but not care, remember, or understand how it connects to the daily lives they life. Enter the emerging culture (propably refering to the grass roots of the “movement” more than the more vocal “leaders”) and a desire to focus on the major tenants, toss the rest out the window, and roll up their sleeves and get to work–serving, caring, encouraging, living a non-hording kind of life style. This, I personally believe, is the remnant that will survive the crushing cultural, economic, social and political blows that are coming our way.
I am still not sure about this Emerging Church thing because it seems it has been slowly creeping in. And it seems to be just exactly what I have experienced in churches regarding the favoritism. Jim Jones is a classic example of this and I know people will be offended in that.
Jim Jones grew up in a Pentecostal church raised by his grandmother. He was very firm in what he believed. This was in the 1960s and 1970s. He saw a need to address social issues and racial inequality. He was very charismatic and charming, until he met with Father Divine. When he turned over his belief to something different his world and that of his followers took a terrible turn and we know the outcome.
The point was, even though he addressed the social issues, they should have been taken care of long before. I read some sites last night about some Emerging Churches. What is incredible to me is that they don’t stress the fundamental aspects of a sanctified life.
The sites looked more urban and hip-hop than Christian and it bothered me. But I can see it has been coming for a while now. I believe that because I have seen how music has changed to include the more popular forms. And when Christian singers who make secular movies, I find sad.
They have forgotten to teach that the Bible says to be separate from the world. Shun the very appearance of evil, not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers and other “crazy” ideas.
I have heard some preachers use the “reaching out to the lost” as a coverup, they reach out to the lost who look like them and wear the right brands of clothes while not even speaking to the very poor who sit every week with them. That is part of the problem, many churches have become respectors of persons. And then I see those people promoted within the church. They are often rude, superficial and secular.
I could tell you the examples but I don’t have enough space. All I can say is this, when a person who genuinely loves the Lord but does not dress nicely or may perhaps not look so pretty is overlooked for someone who wears famous brands and may be considered nice looking…then that church just stepped away from the love of God being shed abroad in our hearts.
Preachers saying God looks on the inside not the outside…when the preacher is himself looking on the outside, not the inside. Sad really and a lot of people have been hurt. And this emerging church thing is going to create a void. People will be excluded while others exalted and no real teaching will be held.
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