The Asphyxiation of Hope: Matthew Warren (1986-2013)

Heartfelt and sincere, a difficult subject for sure. Depression? May those who have never been there be grateful. But I’m afraid the comment that struck me hardest was, “Who is at fault? God is.” This opened up a pit in my own stomach. Where is the Great Physician when he is needed most?

A note to Wolf Paul (#10 above). Based on what you’ve said I think it may be worth your while to listen to Aaron Budjen’s Message #57 on Romans (The Love of God). I think this message may put more foot-leather to what you’re driving at.

http://www.newcovenantinstitute.net/living_god_ministries/radio_archive/romans.htm

[…] would like to recommend the article The Asphyxiation of Hope by Michael Patton, written on the occasion of Rick Warren’s youngest son’s […]

I can only offer my prayers to all who are suffering loss at this time. Whatever the reason, it is not our place to bring into question God’s ontology. This life is what it is if it were not for this thing called sin. CMP, I love you man for your boldness and raw courage to go there, and be real. Be strong Brother.

Thought of u the second I saw the headline on Drudge.

A few disjointed thoughts:

This post and this entire thread of comments has been extremely disturbing.

I haven’t worked out theologically yet what happens to Christians who commit suicide. To be honest, up until a few years ago when I heard of it happening, I didn’t even think such a thing was possible.

But I too find it worrisome to talk about suicide like it’s an option, a relief from pain, knowing that some people may then decide to do just that.

***

Three points:

1 – Not everyone who is depressed or has thoughts of suicide (or even attempted it) is “mentally ill”. People are sometimes just struggling with very hard things like chronic illness (personally, or in taking care of someone in that situation) or the death of a loved one or long-term unemployment and they want relief from the endless struggle. It’s perfectly understandable and rational to long for an end to such pain.

2 – The bottom line is that people have a choice to murder themselves or to not do so. I realize everyone will consider me cruel, but I’m sorry, this needs to be said.

God does not “take” someone who commits suicide. They do it to themselves.

It’s the same thing as someone who chooses to murder another person. Does God “take” that victim? No. He allows horrible things for reasons I cannot fathom, but He does not do them. People choose to do what they do.

3 – The conclusion here seems to be that God is not faithful, that God is not enough, and the resources given in Scripture for enduring this horrible, broken world are insufficient.

This horrifies me. This is not the Christianity I know. Something is wrong here.

***

Again, this will label me as cruel and unfeeling. It is not my intent to be so. I don’t wish to go into detail in a public space like this, but it’s not like I haven’t felt some of this pain personally.

***

I debated whether to even say any of this. But seeing some of the comments here has been very disturbing.

Michael Patton, I have read and reread Mo’s comment and did not notice that a quick fix was offered. I saw observations and I think she did really well to summarize those observations. That’s hard to do without going into detail. If this was a LIVE, in person round table discussion, it would take days for all of us to feel it had been hammered out properly and given the time such a discussion deserves. I appreciate all the answers. One of the biggest problems with suicide is that we failed to get inside that person’s head. Here we have people allowing us to do just that. I don’t much care “at this point” if their thinking is wrong. I just want to know what they are thinking? I wish this was in person and I could hold everyone’s hand. So many questions and so few answers. Are there times we (this culture) help others feel justified in there misery by giving them a label? Are there times we shame what we don’t understand, what scares us? Are there times when the medications stop working and start being the problem? Are there times it is truly a matter of brain chemistry and nothing else. Like a birth disorder? Are there times brain chemistry change is brought about by the sad choices one makes? Are there times when medication for a serious physical problem cause the brain to malfunction? And are there times when one has been on such meds for so long, that even if removed, the brain has found a new normal…called depression? And does medication for depression work for a while and then lose it’s effectiveness and has to be increased and later changed and the cycle starts all over again? Are there times it is nothing but demonic influence? Lastly, with all the stories, is there a common thread, other than one is depressed and wants to fade away? How much has to do with being lonely or left alone? Those are just a few of the questions. So many more. I really like your last statement about the fact we should be disturbed about the ugliness of sin.

“It lets me know you are taking this seriously even if your answers are on the “quick fix just do this or that” side. ”

I’m sorry, but no, they were not.

I’m not expecting anyone to really understand what I said. I wasn’t able to articulate my thoughts the way I normally would.

But I think what I did manage to get across was so important that I risked at least trying to say it, even though I knew I would be misunderstood.

@ Rebecca –

Thank you. I think your comments and those of Greg (Tiribulus) have been the closes to what I have been wanting to say.

It is indeed a difficult, horribly painful subject. One can only do so much in a setting such as a blog/web site. I too wish that I could ease the sorrow of all those enduring this pain.

Thank you so much for writing your thoughts on this. I am the mother of a 22 year old son who committed suicide just last year — my heart resonated deeply with many thoughts in your message, and it brought me to tears, to read such empathetic words. I have not agreed with Mr. Warren’s theology, but there is no doubt that he is a brother in Christ, and my heart goes out to he and his wife during this difficult time of grieving the loss of their precious son.
My husband and I both believe that there was a missed diagnosis with our son in all the counseling and therapy that he received, but we know that he had called on Christ to save him, and though he struggled with darkness, he is now free from his struggles in the arms of Jesus.
I have felt the strangle hold of panic attacks and the ensuing darkness of depression myself, and during those times rational thinking was barely possible. If I had to endure a long season of either of those I could easily see myself coming to a place of wanting to end it. Thanks be to my merciful Father that I have not ever come to that point, but I can see how others could and have.
I do not doubt that God loves my son, and as our pastor said at his memorial service, “Where was Jesus when this happened? I suggest that He was there to catch him when he fell…”
May God bring great comfort and deep joy to the Warren family in all the hard days and moments ahead of them.
I know that God is good.

The Lord bless your heart, Matthew, for your vulnerability, compassion and wisdom. I want to share my article: “Suicide: The Most Tragic Result of Untreated Chronic Depression and Mental Illness.”

These days, my heart reserves a special space for Pastor Rick Warren, his wife Kay and their living children. Their heartbreak reminds me of a couple I met years ago, who talked about their travels to so many countries that I asked: What parts of the world have you not vacationed in yet? But what I really wanted to inquire was: Why are you living as if you’re trying to escape something? What are you running away from? Later I sadly wondered if they were running away from grief and painful memories. They had lost their son, then only a teenager, to suicide earlier.

How do parents survive such a cruel tragedy? How do you move on with a dagger stuck in the depths of your soul?

I asked the mother to tell me about her son. What was he like? What do you miss most about him? In tears she described a boy who loved life and possessed the ability to make her laugh and smile. I honestly believe she has not talked about him for a while, after he ended his life in a moment of anguish. It almost seemed she was waiting for that chance to remember him in a positive light—and putting those delightful memories into words was a breath of fresh air for her. “I hope you remember him for who he was before his desperate final act,” I said, sharing my wish that they would not define his personhood in light of his suicide. Their hearts’ landscape, of course, inexorably shifted the day their son took his life. Yet I pray that they choose to believe that the suicide is not all of their lives; it doesn’t have to define their family history; they don’t have to give in to the temptation of blaming themselves (Somehow, we could have stopped it. If we would have (fill in the blank) … he would not have killed himself.).

More than anything, I pray they keep turning to the…

Continuation: Suicide: The Most Tragic Result of Untreated Chronic Depression and Mental Ilness:

More than anything, I pray these couple keep turning to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of all mercies and the God of all comfort. He is the living God who is now tenderly holding the hearts of the Warren family, and who is lovingly embracing their souls, as they grieve the death of their youngest son Matthew. He is the God who creates beauty out of ashes.
As someone who had suffered depression and pain that bore no relationship to reality, but which could become so exquisite, that at times I desperately begged for death, I do understand the seduction (if I may use this word) of suicide.
Some people say those who attempt suicide are selfish. But unless they have experienced utter soul torture and are stuck with a sick brain, they shouldn’t judge so quickly. If anything they should rejoice that suicide is only a topic they comment about and never a reality they have to fight against. They are the lucky ones.
“I’ll never forget how, many years ago, after another approach had failed to give relief, Matthew said ‘Dad, I know I’m going to heaven. Why can’t I just die and end this pain?’” Pastor Rick shared. I read online a person’s response to this devastating news: People who commit suicide don’t go to heaven. Really? Who made that judgment? Can someone’s choice in a moment of despair determine his or her soul’s fate? Doesn’t God’s heart shatter in pieces also over His children whose hearts writhe in relentless, unforgiving agony?
How do you make people understand that death in itself doesn’t appeal to the depressive or mentally ill at all, but that you see it as the only escape out of a living nightmare, out of an existence deluged with despondency? How do you explain those moments when being alive equals every single second doused in anguish? How do you help others measure the agony that exceeds your capacity to bear,…

page 3: Suicide: The Most Tragic Result of Chronic Depression and Mental Illness

How do you help others measure the agony that exceeds your capacity to bear, that which cannot be assuaged by the love of our families, their prayers, our own prayers, promises from His Word, and your willpower? How do you describe your panic, your terror, as you start believing the lie that no relief will come—not in that moment, nor the next, not in the following hour, nor next month, and my God, have mercy on me, not ever?

Many statistics about suicide are alarming and disheartening, but the most important one—and which should give us hope—involves the fact that 90 percent of people who die by suicide suffered a diagnosable and treatable psychiatric disorder or a mental illness at the time of their death. As someone put it: Suicide is the most tragic result of a mental illness. So if a person exhibits symptoms of a mental disorder, we can encourage him or her to seek psychiatric help.

I don’t know or understand why the Lord did not choose to use what Pastor Rick described as “the best doctors, meds, counselors, and prayers of healing” to end his son’s “torture” wrought by his mental illness. I am sobered because He chose to use these same provisions to free me from the stranglehold of emotional disorder. Yet the truth remains that He was sovereign in Matthew’s life and is so in his death. He did not withhold His mercy from this young man, whom his father honored and will remember as one possessing incredible compassion, gentleness and brilliance.

I pray the evil one will not succeed in using Matthew’s death to advance his lies. See, how can a good and powerful God allow this to happen? I pray that nobody will succumb to the temptation of suicide, because, believe me, truly the anguish will stop.

page 4 Suicide: The Most Tragic Result of Untreated Chronic Depression and Mental Illness

I hope that Matthew’s mental illness—that, alas, poisoned his gentle heart much of his short life—will not be wasted, and nor his family’s weeping; that somehow because of their experience, others who live with chronic depression and mental illnesses will receive more compassion and attention; and pave the way for those suffering in silence and shame to come out of hiding, fearing no stigma, and seek available help and take advantage of the Lord’s provisions for healing.

Perhaps just like me and many others, by God’s grace, instead of bearing more moments of despair, many will know more moments of reprieve, hope and joy.

Rosanne, I am so sorry. I’m just so sad about your loss and how it has changed your life. I have no words of comfort. I just want you to know that it matters very much to me. I so wish I could take your pain away. Thank you for letting us know and letting us hurt with you. I wish I could hug you.

Jo Lee, very good. I love this statement,”As someone who had suffered depression and pain that bore no relationship to reality, but which could become so exquisite, that at times I desperately begged for death, I do understand the seduction (if I may use this word) of suicide.” Depression and pain bears no relationship to reality. Good point. Our pain can so distort what is real. The seduction of suicide. Never heard put like that but it is seductive. Thanks for the visual you gave me. Very well written…every word of it.

I’d like to add something to the comment (#44) I made earlier because I feel God putting it on my heart to do so. I hope this will encourage those who have lost a loved one to suicide. I know it did for me. I am bipolar and I had a friend years ago who struggled with mental illness just like myself. We would pray together about it and try to encourage one another. 11 years ago, he committed suicide and it broke my heart. Caused me to struggle with some depression for a long time. I walked that journey with God asking Him why? He was a Christian, had asked Jesus to be His Savior and was baptized. I said, “God didn’t you tell us you wouldn’t give us more than we could handle?” I too struggled with what people say about suicide, and asked God to somehow show me that my friend was okay. That night I had a dream about him. It was more of a vision coming out of dream. He was dressed in a bright white gown, very bright. He hugged me and told me he was okay. Being the doubting human being that I am, I asked God to give me one more sign that my friend was okay. This time it was a dream. He was in the foyer of my church handing out purple flowers from Heaven to people. I believe that was from God. You see…. God is bigger than our black and white interpretations of Scripture. People may ask God for help and He is there to help, but they can still make a wrong decision because of their torment. I don’t believe God would send a Christian to hell for it. It’s no worse than any other sin.. I hope that brings some comfort to people who are grieving right now..

Sometimes I have seen at the bottom of web pages on my computer the message, “Done, but with errors.” The web page would come up and it would appear nothing was wrong with the page – but, the message was there – “Done, but with errors.” Being curious, I “Binged” Done, but with errors. There are three things I read that can cause the message, “Done, but with errors.” One, Code Error. The progammer fails to tell the computer something necessary for the computer to build the web page. Two, Code Compatibility, “Every web browser has its own way of processing web pages and, despite a programmer’s best effort, a web page may not work with all browsers.” Three, Turned Off Support. Programming languages such as ActiveAx and Java are disabled. I think sometimes, we, as humans, are much like the web page that displays, “Done, but with errors.” The browser manages to compensate and get the web page up, despite errors. Definitely, concerning God, there is no Code Error on His part. He is not leaving out necessary information so we can fail. Code Compatiblity can be a problem. “Every web browser has its own way of processing web pages and, despite a programmer’s best effort, a web page may not work with all browsers.” More times than not, the web page does display. The page may display through the Holy Spirit or through memory or teachings of the Word, or through people reaching out to other people. Turned Off Support reminds me of Jesus telling the disciples to pray lest they enter temptation. Sometimes, “Turned Off Support” may be when every thing is no longer there. Maybe family is turned off, or friends, or work, or money, or health, or prosperity, or self-reliance, or… When the hour of the power of darkness works, and all support is turned off, it will then be only you in that darkness, – or only you and Jesus – and with Jesus there is Light even in gross darkness. He will be there, He will not leave you alone. To the Warren…

[…] Michael Patton (of Credo House Ministries) The Asphyxiation of Hope: Matthew Warren (1986-2013) emotionally shares a firsthand perspective of of grief in the wake of […]

My son who has been through major depressive episodes usually finds strength in this verse Romans 8:28. “ALLTHINGS WORK TOGETHER FOR GOOD TO THEM THAT LOVE GOD.. CALLED ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE”.. God’s purpose for each individual is different but they are for our utmost Good. We walk by Faith and not by Sight.. so even the tribulation of depression is working a far Greater Glory than we can ever imagine and think.. I think those of us who go through it and even faintingly try to hold on to God,.. He is going to look at our weekest attempts to have faith and say “well done you good and faithful servant…”. Our faltering faith which is much beyond our capability may even surpass the faith of a martyr who has full control of his mind…in God’s sight.

What an article, a depth of pure understanding. My daughter is severely mentally ill with Bipolar, Boderline Personality. O.C.D., and a few other things. The pain she suffers every day takes my breath away. My faith has never wavered, but I cry to God for help, as I watch helplessly as her illness is consuming her. Every morning I hold my breath if she will still be alive. She’s 23, this is supposed to be the best part of her life. What happened? Why does God keep letting her go further down and us with her? I wish I could grasp the reality of it.My daughter who was brought up in faith and the church most of her life, simply says, there is no God that would allow this. Reading the stories about Angie and Matthew, there are no words to convey the horror of all of it. Thank you.

“My daughter who was brought up in faith and the church most of her life, simply says, there is no God that would allow this.”

See, this is the sort of thing that troubles me.

No one seems to want to admit that a great deal of what we call mental illness may have its root (or be worsened by) having an angry, bitter attitude against God for whatever He’s allowed in our lives.

But even just saying this is considered wrong and even cruel, and the idea is simply outright dismissed without even considering this angle.

I think it’s very easy to call everything ‘mental illness’ these days, because it removes the responsibility from us and puts it onto something else, something that we have no control over.

The truth is that we have a great deal more control than we think or are willing to admit. There’s a world of difference and distance between thinking of suicide and going through with it. And going through with it is a choice.

Again, I realize no one wants to hear this. But it’s the truth. It’s an ugly and tragic truth, but truth nonetheless.

I am truly sorry you are ignorant of mental illness that is genetically passed down, to which my daughter has been tested. Wish you could live in her skin for a day, just a day, then maybe you would have some compassion. There isn’t even a point in trying to make someone like you understand when you are so closed minded.

@ Lynn –

See? That’s exactly what I mean. One doesn’t dare say anything of this sort without being met with such vitriol. I am ignorant of nothing.

There’s nothing worse than the ‘You haven’t suffered!’ angle. You know nothing about me. One person’s suffering/situation has no bearing on another’s. It’s not a contest to see who’s had things worse.

But if you must go there, I’ve been depressed, especially since I’ve been un/under-employed for nearly 6 years now. That’s as far as I’m going to get into in a public blog.

Wishing for me to suffer worse doesn’t change your situation and it doesn’t change the true things I have said on this matter.

All it does is highlight my point, which is that how we handle life situations has a huge bearing on our spiritual and mental well being. Scripture upholds that view, and all your nastiness toward me doesn’t change that fact.

@ Greg (Tiribulus) –

Thank you! It’s good to see at least one person here gets it.

Sheesh, but this thread has grown frustrating. It might be time just to stop reading it.

None of us are doctors. I don’t think? I’m not. But it seems most of us are experienced with “mental illness”, either because we have been the patient or live with the patient or both. Still, I think when we give our experiences we are not saying EVER that all experiences are the same. There’s just not enough room here to say all that is on your heart. It’s like we’re getting soundbites of how each person feels straight from the heart. The limitations of the written words leave us, well, limited. It’s hard to be direct, knowing your compassionate side cannot be seen or heard. And soundbites cause us to jump to conclusions. The reality is depression starts somewhere. In it’s most minimal state we have “others” profiting from labeling such people for a lifetime of horror and “others” profiting BIG TIME from the drugs that are prescribed. Now don’t take out of context that I’m discouraging anyone from getting evaluated or taking medication. I am suggesting that when we are in a vulnerable state, when we are most fragile, evil takes advantage. That’s just Evil 101. Or maybe I should call it Temptation 101? Evil wants to give us what we think we need and give it to us quickly. On the spot. You know, that’s why they say we need patient advocates when we are seriously ill because we are so vulnerable, maybe out of our heads and we need someone that knows us, from when we are in our right minds, to stand up for us, to take charge when something is being offered that the advocate knows we would decline in our sober state. And I’m starting to think that family is not the best advocate because they are too close. Like therapists don’t treat family? We crater over seeing our family in dire pain and the patient is able to manipulate (whether intentionally or intentional by default because they are out of their head with pain) family better than friends. So the patient needs an advocate or two or three that can be strong and has good discernment and wisdom.

Rebecca, back in #21, mentioned the difference between being trained to reject and escape suffering, and being trained to expect and accept it. She gave the example of soldiers in battle. I even rememer hearing that at least one of those terrorists who was waterboarded had been trained to endure it, knowing it wouldn’t really kill him, -he would tap out the seconds with his fingers.

But do Christians get the training we need for our spiritual warfare? Or do we just fall in line with the secular culture that has pleasure and self-determination as its end?

There seems to be a huge gap in Christian teaching about how to handle suffering. (whether we are the one enduring the affliction, like Jesus on the cross, or the ones who stand by, like Mary and John at the foot of the cross). I think Catholicism could offer something here. I’ve never had to deal with emotional disorders, but my faith has been a help, not a problem, to other kinds of suffering.

The current Theology Unplugged series is on Catholicism. I think it would be wonderful if Michael did one program on redemptive suffering. It’s one of the most beautiful and least understood aspects of Catholicism. Cath. doesn’t teach that we seek out suffering, but when it is indeed unavoidable, there can be deep meaning in it. It’s not suffering to atone for our sins, in the stead of Christ’s suffering. It’s not just, “oh, well, there must be some good reason for this we don’t know about.” It’s that, when Christ redeemed us, He also redeemed our suffering. So that it doesn’t have to be meaningless. In His Mercy, by making us members of His Body, our suffering is united to His Suffering, and we are able, in a mysterious way, to offer up our sufferings for the salvation of our fellow man. All by virtue of being a member of Christ’s Body. It’s by His Grace that our sufferings have meaning. Real, divine meaning.

I am very concerned about the labeling of people, especially children and the prescriptions that are written daily in this country. This is not a scientific observation. This is deep in my gut. I like to peel back things to see them in their original state before they got all complicated. I like to see if I can recreate their journey in order to see what might have been missed before? You know, to spot the first detour? When I hear about any kind of struggle and know a person in need, I want to know what they have done thus far about it. And then I want to know what damage has been done to them since their journey began? You just can’t customize a plan without knowing these things. I’m trying to say, I don’t make snap judgments but my experience is real and I think I am qualified to speak to trends I have seen. When my grandson was 4-5, shortly after his dad had committed suicide, he became very OCD-like. Shoes laces not lined up properly caused many a meltdown. For some odd reason he kept his blankie in the fridge? He had major outbursts and screaming that he didn’t know what was wrong with him. Just an emotional basket case. Really condensing this here. After therapy with various counselors, he became a patient of this psychiatrist who was well seasoned. He had years of experience with kids like my grandson. He puts him on meds. My grandson gets worse and one day the little fellow breaks the entry hall mirror, screaming, “why am I like this?”. Long story short, my daughter senses the prescribed med is really throwing him off. She stops the meds. He continued with some destructive behavior for a while. He has turned 18 and will graduate in May. He has done missionary work out of the country as well as quick trips to Galveston to minister to the homeless. He loves his friends and they love him. Moral of this story? Too many doctors treat patients as one size fits all. Before there is any rapport built with the patient, here is the script. Next?

Another experience. I have a friend that tried to commit suicide in her sixties. As soon as she overdosed, she panicked & dialed 911. She was placed on various meds. She really struggle & wasn’t making progress. One day, to the horror of her adult sons, she announced she was tossing all her meds in the trash. Of course, they were deeply afraid she’d try to kill herself. She didn’t. But she did do something she didn’t want to do, she made an appointment with a Christian counselor. Said she went faithfully every week for three years. She screamed & cried it all out. She claims it was the hardest three years of her life. But it saved her life. The meds were simply a quick fix, a way often for doctors to shelve people. Yes, I believe many many doctors are trained that way. They do think they are being humane. My son in law who committed suicide was originally placed on Interferon for Hep C virus. No one told the family that he could become suicidal because of the meds. We learned about this later. He was suppose to be refused this med unless he could document he was under the care of a therapist. He was not. And he was never monitored while on this med. Never questioned. After the funeral, my daughter tried to reach his attending physician. She never talked to him because he never returned her calls. I went to my neuro for a check up. I tried to think of everything that I am experiencing that might be a neuro problem. Neuro thinks some facial & ear pain I’m having are migraine & gave me a RX for it. I asked him about side effects. Will I need a liver transplant or how about suicidal feelings? He laughed & said no serious side effects other than some experience weight loss. Hmm. I pick up my meds & guess what is right there in print? Can cause suicidal thoughts. When I get the head pain, it can be a solid week on the couch with constant knife like stabbing in my head & ear. Nothing works. But I don’t take those meds. WARNING! DO NOT STOP YOUR MEDS. CONSULT YOUR DOCTOR…

Hi, Greg (Tiribulus):

Irene the Friendly Catholic here. (: Completely understand. That wasn’t me up in #55, God love her.

I can’t stand leaving my I’s lowercase, and I’ve been around here long enough to know that the count for the character limit in comments is off by about 70-80, so that if you use all your characters, your comment will not be entirely posted.

I did see your reply to that Irene, and I wondered if I should clarify or not, but I figured you really did mean to pray for the person who wrote it, whether it was me or not. So I decided to say humble and not assume it was about me.

Anyway, to the Irene in #55, I will pray for you, and I’m sure Greg still will, too.

@ 88 Rebecca –

Thank you! This is exactly the sort of thing I’m thinking of.

Here we’ve got a very young child enduring an emotional blow he cannot even fully understand, much less handle. How could he NOT have emotional/behavioral problems after enduring something like this?

But conventional wisdom says only. ‘Let’s put him on meds because he’s mentally ill’. He’s not mentally ill! He’s just lost his father, he’s surrounded by other people who are behaving strangely (in his perception) because they are also grieving this loss, his normal routines have been turned upside down – how on earth do we expect him to behave “normally”?!

But again, we hear something like this and immediately label the person “mentally ill” and push drugs on them, as if drugs magically cure the pain and confusion. It’s just mind boggling to me.

(And yet again, we can’t say any of these things, because we’ll be called ‘unfeeling’ or ‘ignorant about mental illness’ and all the rest.)

We have to know in this greedy culture that there will be those that agree we deserve a immediate solution to our physical pain. And they give it to us. But there are now studies that show we take something for pain so quickly we never learn what we can handle, how far we can get. And it’s like that cell phone battery. You’re told when it’s new to let it go dead the first time in order for it to have a longer life. Like it gets a set point and returns to that set point each time. The shorter the battery life, the less talk time, the longer, the more talk time. Those that study pain management have seen that when we take pain meds we are setting a pain threshold for our bodies. And often, we set it earlier than needed. Problem is that at the onset of pain, we reach for the meds each time right at that set point. And our brain is cooperating with that and transmitting back that we can’t handle anymore. And if you think we don’t do that for emotional pain, think again. We’ve had a culture that, for many of you, has been telling us we don’t have to feel any kind of pain since before you were born. I see it with my kids and their friends. Nobody is as tough as we were growing up. It’s like each generation is getting more and more fragile.

Now that said, I’d like to speak to those that have serious debilitating, physical pain. Let’s call this part one of serious pain. I have had such pain. I know what it’s like to be afraid to move. I know how depressing it can get. Life is passing you by and there you are flat on your back. The difference between you & me is, I don’t have chronic pain like you do. My serious pain never has gone past two weeks before it subsides. Exception, I have knee pain that is making it hard to get around. But it still doesn’t compare to what you have described. After reading your story of pain, the next morning I got up out of my chair. My knee hurt so bad and I was so annoyed by it. Why does it have to hurt so much? To be continued.

Part two of serious pain: I was so gripey and complaining about how much it interferes with all I want and need to do. Then I stopped dead in my tracks and thought of you. You’re suffering that is never ending, standing, sitting or lying in bed. I get it. It’s so hard and the few that haven’t experienced it know little about how you feel about being stuck with it and in it. It’s so easy for us to tell you to find the joy in your suffering. I get up out of my chair and whine. I am so sorry. I never ever want to minimize your suffering. I don’t know the help you have been given? Here I go peeling back the layers. But you need a men’s accountability group to minister to you as much as any man. By the way, my son in law is a doctor, highly specialized in dermatology and while living in another town, his accountability partner, his mentor was a mail man. He loved meeting with this brother. Anyway, I hope you and others in your situation has a team of those that are there to nurture you. By reading God’s word or helping you leave the house for short drives. Not to lecture you but to nurture you with their gifts and talents. And I hope, dear brother, that you allow them the joy of doing that. Watch them, absorb what they are doing in case God, in His mercy, heals you and you are called upon to help another. If you don’t have some good men like that, the next person that comes into your room, turn your head if you are able and tell them to find you some Godly men who have wisdom and led righteous lives and love the Lord. Tell them to find those men STAT! You must be willing to connect with them. You have to see them as your survival kit. You need these men to feed your soul. You must be nourished. You cannot do this pain any justice without nourishment. Maybe you won’t feel like company. Tell them. But let them come anyway and just sit. Tell them you aren’t up for conversation. To be continued

Part three of serious pain: I can’t encourage you enough to let these men minister to you. You’re in this terrible cycle, injury, severe pain, diagnosis, meds for pain, meds work, meds stop working, new meds administered, job loss, insurance issues and lastly, burden on family and then the guilt associated with that. And the cycle starts all over again each time a doctor makes a change. Oh, has anyone mentioned how BORING being sick everyday is? It wouldn’t be right for me tell you what to do about any of it except the family part. That is one thing you can control. Let them have time off. Time off to recover. And time off to ease your guilt. Allow them to find you these good men to care for you. Your pain is exhausting. That’s one thing people don’t understand. They want to encourage you to try, just try. But the more pain you have, the more you get exhausted and the more you want to rest and the more you rest, the more muscle tone you lose and the harder it is the next time to try. You must find someone you trust to help you break all these cycles while not feeling judged by them. NOT FAMILY! Please do not allow your pain to identify you. For now, don’t try to do anything more than let others in.That’s all. You can’t ask more than that of a starving man. Just let others feed you. I would also recommend oneplace.com. If you don’t know about it, you can find sermons and Christian talk radio and all sorts of Christian programming any time of the day or night. You can find programs that address your issues. I really think it would be helpful if you start listening to encouraging talks that have nothing to do with your pain. The reason is so you can focus on something other than your pain, sort of mainstream your mind, so to speak. For a few minutes you can be “normal”. Bless you and all those with this kind of pain. I pray you will find a way to manage it to the Glory of God and one day, you might see it as a blessing. I pray you find a better way to live with the pain.

Lynne Mariotti said “My daughter who was brought up in faith and the church most of her life, simply says, there is no God that would allow this.”

I can fully understand this statement and no one can judge this as lack of faith.. My son who has been diagnosed with OCD and mood disorder with major depression at 14+..He had been an ardent believer, loved the Lord with all his heart want’s to be a missionary , testified in school to students and teachers wrote blogs on internet on various theological topics was intereseted in apologetics.. a lot for a14 year old!!!. After he was taken over by the illness, the worst part was his inablility to believe that God loved him, felt totally hopeless.. this is the worst part of the illness which is what makes it so dreadful compared to any other illness.. He made several attempts to take his life but the Lord has kept him.. But the Wonder of it All.. this expereince has caused us to seek the Lord even more not just for healing but what HE wants to do with our lives.. we are daily learning to submit to His authority over every nook and conrner of our lives.. we are reaching out to other members of the church..putting our pain behind… It has been a wonderful experince!! seeing God work.. For the last 8 months our son has gotten better.. inspite of no therapy ( he did not like it) and minimum dosage of prozac.. even now he gets those dark thoughts but is learning to not pay attention to them… but to divert to something he likes to do.. This has been possible only becasue of the God’s touch.. no amount of advise could have brought it about.. Please do not give up praying as well as surrendering our lives ( this is for care takers..). praying for you all..be STRONG and of GOOD COURAGE!!

God never allows pain for no good reason.

To Lynne,
I am truly sorry you some of the comments to your post have not be anything except love and encouragment. There are those (me) who understand how you feel, and I’m telling you I will pray for you and your daughter. I’m bipolar and I went through a long time of wondering if God really loved me or not. I know He does though. Your daughter is in pain, you are in pain, and you need love, kindness and understanding, not people giving you their opinions on how mental illness partially has to do with sin… we’re all sinful, and we need to encourage you and pray for you….

@ Sheri –

Those of us who have given our view on the issue(s) have just as much right as anyone else to do so. Trying to shame us into silence by calling us “unloving” is wrong. I will not be silent and accept that treatment.

***

Love includes saying truth, even when it’s hard.

I am in no way even hinting that mental illness has to do with sin.. Jesus paid it All!!.. i am only talking of God’s higher purpose and surrendering to that Higher purpose , seeking hard after Him and letting Him be our All in All.. This has worked wonders in our family and specially our son.. Who is a walking miracle to many who know him..

Dorothy,

I am glad your son’s situation has improved! All the best to you and your family.

Dorothy, your story, your son’s story gives us hope. Thank you for sharing good news!

I am also not in any way saying that Everyone will have the experience.. just draw near to Him and trust that He is taking care of it all.. I believe He took care of Matthew while he was on earth and taking care of him while he is in Heaven.

Moe,
I was just trying to encourage this woman who seems to be in pain. You have a right to your opinion, and I have a right to mine. My intentions were not to shame anyone. Take care and God Bless, Sheri

“Americans make up just 5% of the world’s population, yet they consume over 40% of the drugs that are produced. Do you think that the billions and billions of dollars that the drug companies spend on television and other advertising have influenced this outcome? When your children went off to high school, you probably told them “Just say ‘No!’ to drugs!” Yet when you watch television, the drugs companies are selling you on the proposition to “Just say ‘Yes!’ to drugs. Only two countries, New Zealand and the United States allow drug commercials on television. The FDA approved drug commercials in the U.S. in 1999. Pharmaceutical companies spend nearly $5 billion annually on direct to consumer advertising on television. The average American watches nearly 16 hours of drug commercials every year. That works out to 1920 drug commercials every year. Over 20 years that will amount to 320 hours (8 – 40 work weeks) watching 38,400 drug commercials. Americans are being brainwashed into believing that drugs are the panacea for all problems, physical and emotional. Were you aware that the federal and state governments are working in concert with the pharmaceutical companies to promote the use of psychiatric drugs in children?
Guess who devises these mental health screening tests and promotes their use? The drug companies and their in-house psychiatrists do. Guess who funds these school screening programs? Of course, it’s the drug companies.”

The above statements are from an article written by Steven F. Hotze, M.D. I found the link on Voddie Baucham’s facebook page. It’s worth a read. I hope you all read it so you will know you are getting both sides of the story, not just your doctor’s or your child’s doctor’s, in order to make future informed decisions about mental illness and how to treat it.

http://minutemennews.com/2013/04/protect-your-children-nearly-9-million-on-psychiatric-meds-for-mental-problems/

“A few years ago, Jenelle got food poisoning and was given a neuroleptic drug called Reglan to suppress vomiting. The drug gave her a movement disorder called tardive dyskinesia almost right away. Because of her strange body movements caused by the drug, she was misdiagnosed as having a psychiatric problem & given other psychiatric drugs called Thorazine, Haldol, & Xanax which worsened her physical & mental condition. The psychiatric drugs she was given that are called neuroleptics (Reglan, Thorazine, & Haldol) damaged the parts of her nervous system responsible for motor control enough to make her dependent on a wheelchair.” Although I am not in a wheelchair like Jenelle, I have a much lesser form of this movement disorder this article discusses. And yes, I can recall, previous to any symptoms, taking certain prescriptions that clearly worked in my brain to suppress another symptom. Simply put, they altered my brain chemistry in order to control another a symptom. I can’t prove that these 2 medications are the culprits. But my symptoms manifested themselves shortly after taking these meds. In her story, the very thing that was causing her symptoms, the medication to suppress her vomiting from food poisoning which happens to be a NEUROleptic, a psychiatric drug, she was given other psychiatric drugs to manage the side effects of the FIRST psychiatric drug. No one was trying to hurt her. They were trying to help her. She was in the ER most of the time & the attending staff as most are were ignorant of these serious side effects. And like most doctors, well if the first one doesn’t work, they try another one in the same or similar family of drugs. Poor thing couldn’t get away from the evil source. Her body was bombarded with trial & error drugs. Poor Rick Warren. All he wanted to be able to say in regard to Matthew’s illness was that he left no stone unturned. That enthusiasm & devotion may have sealed Matthew’s fate? http://www.antipsychiatry.org/jenelle.htm

Rebecca,

Just a side note to your last post about drugs. I can’t help but wonder about the wisdom of taking an anti depressant, for example, that can cause suicidal thoughts.

The long list of horrible side effects which often accompanies those drug are very frightening. Is the cure sometimes worse then the disease?

Another one that I have really noticed is the asthma drugs that “may increase your risk of death from asthma.

cherylu, that’s what we have to ask, “is the cure worse than the disease?”. And in this world of information, we must take advantage of all this readily available knowledge to make a truly informed decision. And we need to do it from the “get go”, not after we are exhausted and cannot reason anymore.

Greg, I got a comment you addressed to me in my inbox. But it’s not showing up here for some reason? So when it does I will respond later. Thanks

“And we have to accept this sometimes dark, violent, God as the one who loved him (and Angie) more than we can ever possibly imagine”.

“Who is at fault? God is… a God who did not show up in the way we all desired and prayed he would. His ways are not our ways. He is the one who works all things after the counsel of his will (Eph. 1:11), including leaving countless people in pain as they cry out to him for relief”.

I wish to respectfully submit, that the above quotes sound more like the introduction to the “God Delusion” than the writings of a Christian minister seeking to bring comfort to the bereaved. And since, apparently, “now is not the time to discuss theology”, permit me to have a say nevertheless.

I am in the unfortunate position of having known several persons who have committed suicide. Among them were two young men, one provided me with free tuition in a difficult subject, the other, struggled for years with a cocaine addiction.

On none of these occasions did I sense God to be “dark or “violent”, (what a horrible thought) nor did I consider him to be at “fault”. So when “theology” time resumes, I would sincerely like bro. Patton to direct us to those places in the Bible where we find this “dark” God.

Of course, God “winks” at those occasions when we scream and shout at him because we, or someone we love, have fallen “into a deep, dark, bottomless pit”. He also, no doubt, shares our pain in our “seasons of distress and grief”.

I believe, however, that it may be wise to follow the wisdom gleaned form the book of Job , lest after we have fussed and fumed we find ourselves having to “despise (ourselves) and repent in dust and ashes”, particularly when we have already acknowledged that “his ways” are not only not “our ways” but are considerably “higher”.