“How People Become Evangelists of Unbelief” or Leaving (Christ)ianity – An Evangelical Epidemic

I was blessed to see a young man in our church who grew in his faith through all his questions (many unanswered). I was able to baptise him not even 2 months ago, as he had never been baptised.

Thanks for sharing, CMP.

But rooting people theologically by presenting the intellectual viability of the Evangelical faith must be top on the priority list and it must come early. While I understand this is not all there is to the Christian faith, it is an absolute vital part of discipleship and foundational to everything else.

But many of the anti-testimonies I’ve read of people who have left the faith say that this was a reason they left the faith. Not that no one had ever presented them (whether in person or in print) with the intellectual viability of the Evangelical faith, but that such presentations ended up convincing them that the Evangelical faith could not withstand rigorous intellectual inquiry, nor make a rigorous intellectual case for itself.

Even the NT authors founded their converts’ faith on their personal witness/testimony and demonstrations of the Spirit and power, testifying to them of a God who uses the foolish things of the world to confound the wise, and the things that are not to nullify the things that are.

Appeals to Scripture, appeals to their personal experience of Jesus and His fulfillment of those Scriptures, and appeals to their personal experiences of God’s power in Jesus Christ and in their own midst.

But demonstrations of the intellectual viability of Christianity?

From Out of Ur when it discussed one of the studies:

“This is sobering news that the church needs to change the way it does ministry,” says Ed Stetzer who directed the study. “It seems the teen years are like a free trial on a product. By 18, when it’s their choice whether to buy in to church life, many don’t feel engaged and welcome,” says the associate director Scott McConnell…..Part of the problem, says Stetzer, is the way many churches organize their student ministries. “Too many youth groups are holding tanks with pizza. There’s no life transformation taking place,” he says. “People are looking for a faith that can change them and to be a part of changing the world.” It seems spiritual formation, not just spiritual entertainment, may be what young people are seeking from a church.”

“But rooting people theologically by presenting the intellectual viability of the Evangelical faith must be top on the priority list and it must come early.”

I don’t disagree.

But I wonder if there might be another vital factor at play, and that the “intellectual viability” excuse is simply a smokescreen for it.

I have well over a dozen books giving autobiographical sketches of those who once proclaimed to be Christian and are now evangelistic atheists, agnostics, or skeptics, with their goal to convert or, rather, unconvert others.

FWIW, if you’re interested in this topic, you don’t have to spend money on buying books to learn why Christians have left the faith, including those who have known and even preached the intellectual viability of Evangelical Christianity. There are many free ex-christian sites on the Web where former believers and missionaries and preachers and seminarians and plain old folks give their anti-testimonies and explain – sometimes at great length and with great anguish – why they left the faith. Just Google.

You guys are right that there must be a broader engagement in the lives of these people as well as fellowship that is deep into the lives of these people, but as I said in the blog, there are two primary things I have seen and I have studied this like a mad dog for nearly ten years: (non)experience with God and intellectual challenges.

With both of these, the issue fails because the foundation of their faith was never really laid. This foundation is not more or even different types of experience, but a discipleship of the mind, legitimizing and answering questions. And I am not talking about traditional apologetics (as important as this is in many ways), but theological development and the formation of a Christian philosophy of truth and learning. Good answers without teaching people how to think fails as well. Lots of people have the right answers for the wrong reasons.

I’m wondering about something. I haven’t read these articles and books that you folks have been talking about. But I would like to know if the rest of you have seen the epidemic I have seen in churches of just plain not caring for each other on a day to day basis or very often, even in the midst of a huge crisis. And Christian people can often be extremely cruel to those that are their brothers and sisters. Is this stated among reasons for people leaving the faith? It can be an extremely discouraging thing in a group of people that are supposed to be known for their love for one another. It seems to me that if one is doubting already, experiencing some of this could be something that could very easily help drive someone away altogether.

CMP,

I’m curious about this woman. Did she relate that her dissatisfaction was with the people of the church or with Christ himself? For example, did she indicate that she believed Jesus was alive today and desired a personal relationship with her or was that an example of how the church had deceived her?

Eric, yes, I have been to them all for a long time. Here is an interesting one that never really got much traction, but was a really good idea by some evangelical Christians: http://www.lettersfromleavers.com. This blog, because of people’s knowledge that I deal with this, is filled with “leavers.” I am in contact with dozens of them all the time.

In my “counseling” of these people, I have found that there are gapping holes in their faith that have always been present. Just recently I conversed with a pastor who had been in the pulpit for 30 years. He was in the process of leaving. In the end, we discovered that he had never really been convinced that Christ was who he said he was and rose from the grave. After some time of talking, he is back in the pulpit with his confidence back with a strong conviction that Christ was who he said he did raise from the grave. This was the catalyst of his (non)conviction which he, for 30 years, never knew was (not) there!

We need to challenge people early in these areas, not assuming that they believe simply because they think they do. I know that sounds odd, but with as many people who are “coming clean” with their unbelief, we need to learn and understand why we are facing these problems.

I appreciate the importance of theology, but I’m skeptical of the assumption that these people are truly leaving the Church because their intellectual questions weren’t answered.

I know tons of these “militantly atheist ex-Christians”, and they often say that their departure from Christ is based on rational considerations. But what else would they say? Do you expect them to say that it was irrational? They’re smart enough, and have lived around Christians long enough, to know that any pastor or other “concerned citizen” will latch onto any irrational motive and judge/belittle them for it. So the only way to protect yourself from “concerned citizens” is to claim that it was purely based on reason, while simultaneously refusing to listen.

Luckily, humans are great at inventing rationalizations. It’s instinctual.

In cases where I know the ex-Christian really well, and I’ve either witnessed the falling away process over a period of years, or had them open up to me, “intellectual assent” was never the main issue. There’s always a process, where the person eventually stops looking for reasons to believe, and starts looking for reasons to disbelieve. There are often emotional incidents along the way, often a sense of betrayal or “being duped”. But it’s not “duped” in an intellectual sense.

To what extent can we say that the people leaving were never saved? As a Calvinist, I’m sure this isn’t lost you. At the same time, I would think that part of our testimony is “tearing down strongholds” as Paul wrote. For me, it was not only intellectual answers (via many books on apologetics and great teachers) but also an experience of the faith (I read a lot on prayer and spent much time in prayer). I have to add, that I am still convicted that we need better teaching in today’s churches.

Cheryl,

You are talking about a “back door” policy at the local church level. What you say is the biggest reason why people leave the local church (not getting connected in a real way).

It is different then what is going on when people leave Christianity all-together.

In fact, we have a lot of good churches out there that have many ways to connect people and people become life-long happy members, but are never convicted of the truths of that which they fellowship under! Good connection and nice people with connection does not make a strong faith, only a strong fellowship. This can be found in any fellowship which seeks to connect people, not just Christian.

However, these type of things make the situation worse as the church is facillitating enought to keep the people happy, yet never exhorting its people to a firm intellectual conviction of the faith. People in these cases never recognize their lack of being truly converted.

I had many experiences like this in my faith. I grew up in Charismatic churches and could tell you anything you wanted to know about why you should tithe and the importance of good relationships but I couldn’t begin to give a coherent explanation of the gospel.
I couldn’t explain the Trinity, why I was a Christian, if Jesus was God, man or some mixture, what someone needed to do if they wanted to be saved or a host of other questions. I was never going to walk away from Christ but I sure wasn’t getting the answers I needed.
That’s why I am so thankful for programs like The Theology Program that educate the laity (and the pastors) on the foundations of the faith. I just wish I had gotten that teaching earlier in my walk from the pulpit.

Frank,

This lady expressed a firm measure of betrayal. It was the “tooth fairy” mentality that I see so often today. “It was never really true and everyone kept saying it was. Christians are all deceived.” Bible contradictions, other resurrection theories, and the absence of God were her major problems.

She just wanted to argue about the particulars (which, in this cases, I rarely do). I wanted her to get involved in Prolegomena (our Introduction to Theology class) to help rewire some things first. Sound-bite apologetics hardly ever work here. She needs to change the entire way she approaches her search and the assumptions that she has about Christianity and the naivety of Christians needed to be broken down. These things, unfortunately, take a long time.

For example, a girl who was raised IFB and believed that pants or short skirts on girls were an abomination to God, experienced an increasing sense of dissonance as every one of her classmates in Junior high wore pants or short skirts. Some of these classmates even claimed to be Christian, so she knew that the “rules” about Christianity are debatable. She was shy and unpopular, and embarrassed all the time. By the time she started to realize that pants might *not* be an abomination, she no longer had an anchor. It was only then that she started to question core doctrines.

The problem with engaging here theologically at that point is that she no longer trusted reason — or at least no longer trusts *Christians* to wield reason appropriately. Her father was able to “reason” that pants were an abomination, or “reason” abusing her mother, and so on.

The problem was *not* that she had questions about core doctrines. The questions were the symptoms. The problem was that her father made her go to school looking like a fool, in the name of God, and then tried to batter her with “reason” when she tried to rebel. Most of these people have questions *because* they’ve been betrayed, and the response of Christians has always been to talk their ears off to try to “persuade” them back.

I could go on and on; every example I know of has a similar basic theme. Take for example the kids of YEC parents. That’s a recipe for disastrously angry ex-Christians, and it really has almost nothing to do with theology.

Nobody leaves the fold over bickering on trinity or resurrection; it’s always because of these wacko fringe things that end up leaving the children looking like embarrassed fools. The solution to the problem is for parents and pastors to be more authentically Christian rather than imposing their idolatry on their children.

CMP,

I don’t think we are talking about exactly the same thing here. I don’t think there is probably a way to explain it so it makes sense to anyone that hasn’t seen this in action. Someone recently commented to me about a situation she had been in, “My unsaved friends would never think of treating someone the way these Christians have treated people.”

Over the years I have been in situations and heard from others that are in situations where other people in the church are just so caught up in their own little worlds that there just doesn’t seem to be time for anyone else or for anyone else’s needs. There just doesn’t seem to be real Christian love practiced at all and sometimes there is down right nastiness and cruelty to each other.

And I didn’t say this is the biggest reason people leave. I just wondered if it was listed as a reason.

And while it can certainly be a reason people leave a particular church body, what I am wondering is if people list this as a reason for leaving Christianity altogether. Can the lack of love between Christian people cause a person to doubt the reality of Christianity altogether to the place where they give up completely?

Joshua,

From a certian perspective, I would be inclined to agree with you. I mean from a theological standpoint, ever unbeliever ultimately is an unbeliever because they are dead in their sins and unable to turn from this. The Holy Spirit is the only reason why anyone is a believer.

However, we do have to look at this from a human perspective and how these things are playing out. The symptoms are often the primary way that the Holy Spirit works through us to change people. Just like the presentation of the Gospel. We could present the Gospel in a language people did not understand and say “If the Holy Spirit is here, it will work.” Or we could just not present the Gospel at all, knowing that God will accomplish his will nonetheless—he does not need us.

However, God uses means to accomplish his will for his people to believe. These means include a presenation of the Gospel, encouraging words, and instruction.

Notice what Paul says:

And we proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, that we may present every man complete in Christ. (Col 1:28 NAS)

Teaching was high on the list of priority to Paul in presenting someone “complete in Christ.”

As well, the primary thing I recognize about these people who depart (and truly depart) is how hard it was for them to leave Christ. There is a long time of depression that causes them to miss Christ. In other words, they don’t really want to leave at first. It hurts them deeply. Yet, they simply don’t find the answers and in the contention for people’s minds, when we lose, it is serious.

@pastoraarn – Charismatics are another good one. I knew one guy whose mother was a charismatic, and always embarrassed him in front of friends with talk about her visions from God. True story — she once had a vision from God that told her that she was supposed to seduce her doctor (who was married). She had many visions like this, and basically pursued the doctor to the point of stalking, and it ended only when he left town. My friend was a really intelligent guy, and grew up being a very articulate defender of the reasonableness of atheism (and still loved his mother very much). But nobody can tell me that his doubts weren’t precipitated by his mother’s batty behavior.

I really don’t think it is intellectual at all. Sorry Michael, but the root of people’s engagement in the faith begins in the heart and it stays in the heart. Revelation 2:4-5 I had a pile of knowledge, but my own love strayed.

I strongly agree with you that we should build the discipleship and knowledge into people’s faith early on, but if the heart isn’t changed, people will leave. I believe there’s going to be a great shaking out in the church in these difficult times ahead.

I think the best incentive is if all the teachers bear witness that they are really in love with Messiah. People are attracted to love stories!

Cheryl,

Yes, I do agree that this is a serious problem in the church. However, if someone has a strong intellectual conviction that Christ rose and that the Bible is reliable, the actions of other Christians will not effect the foundations of their faith and they will not ultimatly walk away from their beliefs.

But, what you have said is a big problem in the “back door” policies of local churches.

Those that I have studied have never really blamed the ultimate loss of their faith on social issues, though it does come up from time to time and legitimize their raising emotional charge.

@CMP – Yeah, I think we need to be teaching our kids theology. But if we start only when they have trust issues, we start too late, since the questions are often a proxy for the trust issues.

And IMO the *approach* you take to theology is more important for kids than the *content*. Let’s contrast your approach with the approach of some other fictional person.

Your approach to theology — you show a great deal of humility, you explain why you believe a certain way on an issues while allowing for alternate opinions. You’re systematic, yet open to new perspectives. In short, your *approach* to theology is trustworthy and sincere. Even if I think you are wrong on a specific issue, and even if you have flaws, I trust you and I trust the process.

Others’ approach to theology — make assertions and demand intellectual assent. Say that anyone who disagrees is spawn of Satan. Speak on behalf of God (whether through charismatic visions, extending the Bible to cover geology, etc.). Lie to the children to “scare them straight”; tell them that the earth will swallow them if they use the Lord’s name in vain. Make the stakes of your “theology” very, very, very high. KJVOnlyism.

While both are engaged in theology, it’s pretty easy to predict what happens to the second guy’s children.

Thanks CMP, you answered my question. I have just seen such a huge problem in this area, that I wondered how often, it at all, it comes up in what people are saying about leaving.

Josh, you are right. It needs to start very early. As I watch some people interact with their children about the faith, I can (I feel) pretty easily spot those who are being primed for problems later on. It is the choke hold that we think we must place on intellectual freedom that primes future doubt and abandonment.

I think we should should literally keep a “stiff backbone,” when we are having literal back problems; but this, stonewalling it, isn’t a suitable strategy, even metaphorically, when we seem to encounter apparent intellectual problems in our religion.

Instead, when we discover many are not convinced, and discover strong reasons for that, I think believers should simply become more humble, less adamant, about their their own theology. We should “confess” our own sins and inaquacies; and acknowledge modestly that there are many different theologies.

We might even acknowledge that those who seem “outside” the church in our opinion, might still be close to God and Truth in some way; even closer than we are.

I think Jesus summed it up when he taught the Parable of the Soils. Promising people that the Chrisitian life is easy can lead them to believe that their problems are over. When they encounter a “Job” experience they get disillusioned. The television evangelists promise health and riches. When the new “convert” is stricken with health and finance issues they get disillusioned. Heaven is our reward and we must suffer just as Christ and the disciples had to suffer. I think the phrase “Perseverance of the Saints” is a good test for genuine faith.

They do take a long time, hence my desire to teach. I would have for people to deal with these things when there are ways out. I would also add, some teens I know are just apathetic. They never see the richness of the faith or what it means.

Michael,

As you know, I am one of those who left the Christian faith. I can’t speak for anyone but myself but in my case, it was intellectual reasons. You can’t say that I wasn’t grounded in theology. I have a Ph.D. in Theology from one of the most conservative schools around. I taught in a Bible college for 9 years and was a Pastor after that for 2 years. I spent around 20 years as a devoted follower of Christ. Over the last 4 years of my Christian experience, my faith slowly evaporated. I found myself one day totally without belief.

Today, I am convinced that evangelical theology cannot stand the test of rigorous critical examination. It can, IF you have already predetermined that nothing will convince you of its falsity. For example, Bill Craig says that no evidence would ever convince him that his Christianity is false, because of the inner witness of the Spirit. So, he is not really being honest with the evidence. He is sifting through it looking for what confirms his beliefs and throwing out or explaining away that which is against his belief system. I did that too for years but finally I realized that I had to be intellectually honest.

Now since you are a Calvinist and you don’t think a true believer could ever really fall away, then why are you concerned? It seems you ought to be glad that the chaff is being separated from the wheat even before the day of judgment.

John,

I certianly don’t presume to know the whats and whys of the turns you took. And I am certianly not saying that if we dot all our i’s and cross all our t’s these thing will never happen. What I am saying is that the education process in the church does not normally allow for the sorts of faith exploration (especially at an intellectual level) that are needed for everyone. Therefore, we set ourselves up for such things to occur.

When you say, “I have a Ph.D. in Theology from one of the most conservative schools around. I taught in a Bible college for 9 years and was a Pastor after that for 2 years.” This really does not do anything as far as telling what happened as it is often the education of the “consevatives” that set things up. This is especially the case with most “Fundamentalist” education.

Thanks for adding your words.

Michael,

I don’t know what you mean by “its often the education of the conservative that sets things up.”

As far as the term “fundamentalist,” I would consider Dallas Seminary to be in that camp as well. Maybe not with some of the peripheral issues but definitely from a doctrinal standpoint.

You know true discipling, and I’m talking about the kind Christ gave His disciples, is sorely lacking in the body of Christ nowadays, whether we are intellectually aware, or experience oriented. Somehow we need to stop the tug of war between the two extremes and get back to the true in depth study of what it means to be Christians, as least as Christ defines us.

Salvation is a first step. It is important to get folks saved, but that carries with a responsibility to be aware enough of the theological questions to answer them in depth without just saying it’s just about grace, or election, or freedom of choice, or whatever we believe denominationally, and get back to a biblical quorum somehow if we are going to plant the seed on fertile ground, and see a lasting crop from it.

Ken, you are right to some degree about the tradition that DTS holds and its doctrinal statement, but I would say that the education that one recieves in the last 10 years (outside of one department that I won’t mention) is very strong and fosters the type of thought that is necessary to overcome some of the problems involved.

But, the problem starts much earlier than seminary, I believe.

Allow me to make one more observation, I think one of the big reasons that people are departing from the faith more today is because of the internet. People are able to read and find information that previously had to be “dug out” in a research library if it could be found at all.

When the printing press was invented, it meant big problems for the Catholic Church. Information could be disseminated more widely and more quickly. Its much more so with the intenet. I think it is and will prove to be a big problem for all religions.

Michael,

I think the problem with any institution that requires allegiance to a doctrinal statement is that it does not allow one any real intellectual freedom. That is not to say there are not intellectuals in these schools. Nor is it to say that the academic requirements are not high, they are. However, as I mentioned earlier with Craig, everything is filtered through a predetermined set of beliefs.

Ken, I agree. The obscurantist mentality that we have nourished for so long is being revealed in the information age.

Ken, I also agree that the docrinal statements of these institutions need to losen up. But it ain’t going to happen for the next decade or so. Too much old money invested.

I’m still a believer and I had to disavow some of the teachings of my church to stay that way.
One of the big ones: you have to have a morning devotional. It will change your life and if you don’t you are going to be spiritually weak.

My life didn’t change except for the obvious fact that God wasn’t working miracle in my life because of my morning study. In fact there was no difference in my life that I could notice. The only thing I got out of a it was a furthering of my impression that the Christians lied to me again.

Thank you for your openness on this very difficult topic. My sense is that most people in evangelical circles are really marginalized from meaningful involvement. Many people I talk to in our church feel superfluous to the functioning of the body. They often feel like warm bodies dropping checks in the plates to keep the church programs going. Our churches have many programs, but very few people I sit with in the pew fit these programs. For example, I wonder how many people completing the TTP program find any significant avenue of service in their home church. Very frequently the only avenue of service suggested is something like directing traffic in the church parking lot on Sunday. Marginalized people begin searching for meaning and answers. Then the “unanswerable” questions and serious doubts arise.

The real question to ask is how we are involved in sharing with one another so we feel free to meaningfully serve and pursue difficult questions together.

God bless you! Keep on doing what you’re doing!

Thanks for the great post.

I agree that there seems to be a lack intelletual answers in the evangelical church at the moment (well mine at least).

Do you think it is possible that the intellectual problems are main problem? From my own experience (of my currect self) I feel I am only on a ‘Step 2’ on the intellectual problems, yet I seem to be becomming more apathetic about morality. In fact though I do have intellectual problems the reason I will fall away from the church (if I do when I go to University in a few months) will be because I want to escape the morality of the Bible and Church. In fact the real problem is becomming that I don’t know if I want to be brought back to full faith if I could be. Sadly that sounds alot like apathy, but not for intellectual reasons.

The things is I would only show my intellectual problems when talking to a church leader who knew me about this. So are intellectual problems the real problem? I suppose it could be for some.

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Michael – I think you understand the problem but i’m not sure you have the solution.

Right now I’m in the apathy stage [very close to atheism]

I’ve watched all of your TTP videos, and I really enjoyed your inclusive approach [protestant, RC, and orthodox views]. For the most part, you are intellectually honest and rigorous.

I was a true believer and will take anyone to task who claims that I wasn’t – I believed with all of my heart and I experienced “God” – I had a personal relationship with Jesus – and I took God’s word very seriously.

My journey of Questions is too long to describe here, but the reality is that no religion has answers to those questions.

Thanks John,

You are right, I don’t really have a solution. I am just attempting to call upon the church to take this possible problem out of the mix. In the end, I believe that it is a real mystery and there is no one size fits all to the problems that have arisen.

I do believe that the lack of serious intellectual engagement and the validating of questions asked tend to make the church irrelavent in the mind of many when search for the truth.

I am sorry to hear that you are where you are. Stories such as yours make me pick up my “fix-it” mentality. Unfortunately, even TTP will not “fix” every issue.

May God be with you in your search and may Christians have understanding rather than judgmental condemnation.

Dale, there are more people than you know who would say nothing but “amen” to what you have said.

I read an article recently that made a point over young people leaving the church that was related to politics. The gist of the article was that the young people related the church to republicans and they felt that republicans were intolerant of many people in society. I think one of the things the church needs to do is to be very careful about how it handles politics. As soon as you lean towards one party or the other on a culture like ours, you basically forfeit the opportunity to tell half the population about Jesus.

Re: 27
Just a comment (I assume by Bill Craig you mean William Lane Craig). I’m not sure the fact that Bill Craig believes belief in God is warranted in the absence of hard evidence (which I think is a philosophically defensible position btw, though I certainly believe there is evidence as well) affects the validity of his philosophical arguments elsewhere. This seems to be non-sequitar. They either fall or stand on their own. Simply because he assumes God is real and then seeks to prove this doesn’t invalidate his arguments anymore then it invalidates those of a atheist who believes God is a hoax and tries to prove that.

Ultimately I don’t think there is any more “intellectual honesty” on the atheist side then there is on the theist side. They both have their presuppositions and beliefs they are trying to prove. For instance when a atheist simply states that “there is not nor is it possible for their to be anything supernatural” they are being just as intellectually dishonest as someone who starts with the presupposition that “Jesus Christ is the Son of God and rose from the dead”. Neither one is in an ivory tower without presuppositions. They are both down in the mud with each other.

Is part of the problem the Christians who remain including the Christian leadership is unwilling to wrestle with why we believe what we believe and what it is. I started out an agnostic and ended up becoming a Christian because it was the view that made sense to me but I also ended up holding a nonstandard doctrinal position because I was not willing to fit the denominational pigeonholes. Are people not willing to think things through and therefore unable to deal with the questions of those who are doubting?

Hi KEN PULLIAM
#27 #29 #32 #33

I am curious when you stated that ” you left because of intellectual reasons.” Would you please give me one or two of your major reason (s) why you left intellectually?

Ken, its cool if you answer Eric, but (to all) I don’t want this post turning into a debate about all his points.

I’d like to hear more from Ken too; no need for debates or arguments for now.

On a related topic, doesn’t the Bible speak to a growing apostasy in the Church?

As an aside, I don’t take offense at evangelists of unbelief. Nor do I get defensive.

They may think it’s intellectual suicide to be a Christian, and therefore, they can’t remain a Christian. I’m on the other side of the chasm: I think it’s intellectual suicide to become an atheist or an agnostic.

I never want to be them or where they are. And they really don’t want to be where I’m at as a Bible-believing Christian. And that’s just the way it is.

Eventually, every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is King.

Parable of the four soils. Observation, for better or worse, a lot of pastors spend time cultivating the fruitful soil.