Most certainly, there are many more things I love about Christianity than what I hate. However, I thought I would spend a bit of time here and open up the conversation in a different direction. These are the top eight things I “hate” about Christianity, in order.
(Oh, and since we have thousands of first-time visitors here everyday, let me be clear…I am a very committed Evangelical Christian.)
8. Unanswered prayer = God’s “no”. Prayer in general is hard. It is hard to keep up with someone whose relationship techniques do not mirror anything we practice on earth. The though-you-do-not-see-him-now-but-believe-in-him” (1 Pet. 1:8) thing is really bizarre. And when it comes to prayer (i.e. talking to God) it culminates in some frustrations. When I pray for something that does not get answered (i.e. my request does not happen), people often say, “that is God’s ways of saying “no” or “not now.” So, in Christianity, God’s ignoring is another way of rejecting a request? I don’t like that. I am not saying it is not true, its just I would prefer something else.
7. Testimonies, BC and AD. No, it is not the testimonies themselves, but the burden of what a testimony must bear. There has to be a former way of life before Christ (BC) and what you have become after Christ (AD). The burden is that in order to have a “great” testimony, pressure is placed upon you to present yourself in a nice and polished way that says, “Look what God has done with me: Can you believe it? You can be like me too.” Testimonies are more valid (not to mention more believable and inspiring) when the “finished product” (the AD) is never really finished at all, but still broken. I don’t like the shallow “now and then” of the Christian testimony format.
6. Watchdog ministries. Watchdog ministries. Lighthouse ministries. Appraisal ministries. They go by many names. They are full-time Christian snipers. Let me back up. There are certain ministries that exist to find and expose false teaching. I have no problem with exposing false teaching. Indeed, it is part of what we are to do as teachers…correct false doctrine. However, it is very rare to find a ministry or a person who does this well. Most of the ministries and people who do this are arrogant, ungracious, and counter-productive and themselves need to be exposed. I have worked for one of these ministries (a long time ago). After a while, the ministry becomes obsessed, concerning itself with nothing else other than beating someone up in the name of the Lord. When there is no controversy, like a drug addict in withdrawals, they begin to create controversy ex nihilo or go back to dead horses and kick them. Their goal soon loses the priority of truth, learning, and understanding. I think that many people would have nothing to talk about if there was not someone to kick.
5. Seeker-driven Churchianity. (“Churchianity: a term a took from my friend Michael Spencer). That’s not really the best way to put it. A better way might be “compromised Christianity.” The reason why it is often called “seeker churchianity” is based on its primary desire to fulfill the “Great Commission” through reaching the lost. But there is a line crossed. I cannot always tell you where it is, but I will go out on a limb here and say that the majority of Evangelical Churches today have crossed that line a long time ago. I carry I poker chip in my pocket. Written on it are the words “Leaving Lust Vegas.” It was taken from a church that was doing a sermon series about lust and decided to use a modern Hollywood and Las Vegas theme to communicate their message. I can’t imagine how much it cost to have these chips made (not to mention how little practical effect they really have). I also have a flier from a sermon series called, “Girls Gone Wild, Bible Style.” This was from a different church who was attempting to reach its audience in a relevant way. I understand why they do this and even admire their intentions. However, I hate it when the Church so much wants to reach the world that one can hardly tell the difference between the culture of the Church and the culture of Hollywood. The church is different and we should do things a particular way. Wal-Mart is different. Disney World is different. The movie theater is different. Fraternities at the University of Oklahoma are different. Congress is different. Just because one is different does not mean they cannot be relevant in accomplishing that which their purpose demands. Why is the church so scared of being different?
4. Christian subculture. I understand that in every discipline, career, or fellowship, there is going to be a unique vocabulary and way to communicate. I make a living teaching theology, a discipline in which people have to learn a new technical language if they expect engage in an effective way. Therefore, I have no problem with communication barriers that need to be overcome. As well, I understand that each culture has its own unique ways of life including family matters, music, education, entertainment, and the like. Therefore, I don’t have any problem with cultural barriers. However, in Christianity, I find that most Christians (especially Evangelical Christians) feel pressured to enter and live within a subculture which, in-and-of-itself, does not necessarily represent Christianity, but becomes the primary avenue through which those on the outside view the Church. The problem is that Christianity is not a culture or a sub-culture (a culture within a culture). Christianity is a belief and a relationship with God that expresses itself in very adaptive ways, with the ability to see the image of God in may cultural expressions that are not unique only to Christians. “Christian” music, education, fiction novels, language, sports, bumper stickers, t-shirts and the like often serve a purpose to distance Christianity from those whom we are ambassadors to and obscures our message. That is why I hate the Christian subculture.
3. Legalism. All religions breed legalism, but Christianity is a religion founded on grace. Legalism cancels out grace. Therefore, legalism cancels out Christianity. Ironically, Christianity has so many legalists. Legalism is essentially an attitude shared by many Christians (especially the immature) that exists to make people feel more in control and comfortable. It is a list of dos and don’ts that one has to follow to be accepted. However, Christianity only exists because God was not legalistic with us. We broke all his rules and he stooped to forgive us. He continues to stoop to forgive us. Legalists, ironically, will not stoop. I hate legalistic Christianity, especially since I can be the primary representative of this legalistic mutation.
2. Anti-intellectual mentality. I was reading a Christian author earlier today who said that the number one thing he hates about Christianity is that “there is no evidence for what we believe.” He goes on to define this as “faith.” I hate that a Christian could ever make such a statement with a straight face. If what he said is true, it is tragic. If there is no evidence for Christianity, I am leaving (quietly, out the back door). I hate that our current Christian culture has so far distanced the intellect from faith that a belief that there is no evidence for Christianity is assumed. I don’t hate it simply because I am embarrassed by it (which I am), but because it is not true and gives so much ammunition to those who reject Christianity. I hate the lack of the mind in the Christian church today.
1. Hell. This is hands down the most difficult doctrine in the Christian faith. We believe in a loving God who sees fit to allow his creation (his children) to suffer in a place we call hell—a place, by the way, that affords more suffering than anything imaginable. A place, by the way, that is never-ending. It is not as though I don’t believe it. I do. It is not as though I look at God in judgment. I don’t. It is simply something that confuses me. While I completely disagree with any form of “Christian” universalism (i.e. all people are going to make it to heaven), second-chance theories (i.e. unbelievers will experience a second chance to escape hell in the after life), or the idea of annihilationalism (i.e. the belief that hell, along with all its inhabitants, will eventually be annihilated forever), I understand and sympathize with the reason why they go in this direction. If I could find some sort of loop-hole to get out of believing in the doctrine of an eternal hell, I would. If there was such a thing as a Christianity that did not necessitate a belief in hell, I would submit my resume. (And believe me, I have tried). Oh, closely connected to this are the cliché answers Christians give about hell. Many Christians I have encountered act as if hell does not bother them in the least. Of all the things you can be cliché about, don’t be so here.
What about you?
100 replies to "Eight Things I Hate About Christianity"
I hate you michael patton. hate you hate you hate you.
you are one reason i gave up my strictly christian blog. what’s the point when you do it so well here.
dm
I’ll admit, I am a Christian of the immature variety. Only recently have I become a Christian.
With that said, I’m still having trouble coming to terms with legalism vs. “faith that produces good works.” I understand that one cannot do good things and get a ticket into Heaven. We are only able to enter into the presence of God because of the grace of Jesus Christ.
However, the book of James (and 1 John leans in this direction, and I’m sure it’s all over the Bible as well) says that one who has faith will produce good works. So you don’t have to do good things to get into Heaven, but in order to have an assurance of salvation, you should know that you’re doing good things.
Do I have that right? Obviously I want to do good things. And despite your testimony comment, I want to do good things more now than when I wasn’t a Christian! But this could still spiral into the same “legalistic” type thinking: am I doing enough to know that I have “real faith?” What if I’m just fooling myself and at the end of my life, I’ll learn that I never had “true faith” to begin with?
You see the confusion?
Don’t worry, Michael Patton. I still love you. Just, you know, not in that way.
When you said “Why is the church so scared of being different.” I thought this – how is it that we so embrace fear when God so often tells us not to be afraid? I is really puzzling. I know that I really don’t want to tell someone the wrong thing about God perhaps to the point of fear.
Maybe the Church, though seriously wants to gain believers and sees getting along as the way to get this done.
I read an article in Christian Post that said the fastest growing group of Christians in the young adult range is the Eastern Orthodox Church and they are different, and apparently the young, at least, are looking for what they have to offer. Yet it is Christian and evangelical and liturgical at the same time.
The Episcopal Church could offer much of the same, but seems to have decided to mold its self after the society and is reducing in size.
Numbers aren’t everything, but it is important to reach everyone. This is an interesting question.
One thing I see in a lot though certainly not all of the things you hate is a tendency to depend on ourselves rather then God. Whether its legalism or watchdog behavior or an reliance on relevance or hiding in our own subculture to protect ourselves all of these put the focus on our behavior rather God’s grace and power.
Josh,
I read James that same way for many years. However, what James is really getting at is that genuine faith will produce good works rather than we must do good works as a demonstration of faith. That seems to be a subtle difference but it is significant in terms of the source of the works. Genuine faith is sourced in God, then our works follow not as a result of self effort but as a result of response to an inward renewal. Good works are sourced in us to show that we can do things God’s way. This ultimately results in legalism. Does that make sense?
Ugh. I am with you, especially on your number two. 62 people claimed to be Messiah. They all had large cult followings, claimed to do miracles, and all 62 were killed by the Romans. 61 of those religions died when their founders did. Only one did not. That’s us.
I’m convinced that the draw to Eastern Orthodox-sm is dual: it is intensely spiritual, and it is intensely experiential, two things that are often gapingly missing from other forms of Christianity.
The added fascination of ancient organically interwoven with now is as exotic and compelling as quantum physics, where the universe has an endpoint and all that is was determined by that endpoint yet in our future, so that we are all connected, reticulating splines, from the past to the future. Wouldn’t you want to part of that? The supernatural makes the paranormal seem pretty hohum in comparison.
I guess what I’ve grown tired of in our current iteration of Christianity is the endless theology arguments tha can only be won by the person with the biggest words and the most pristine Greek logic. Every time I see the accusation of “eisegesis” these days I have an immediate physical reaction of immense weariness. I can’t read another word. “Heresy” is another favorite.
Studying John 17 this week and I am struck by what Jesus thought was really, really important. With only hours left before the cross He prayed about glory, love and unity. Anybody seen that around here, lately, in American evangelicalism?
I’ve also grown tired of the church competitions, advertizing and outdoing each other like cereal brands in the grocery store. It takes an awful lot of money, time and energy to keep that going, and….I guess I am wondering why we’re willing to keep all this up. Institutions have their benefits, I will be the first to agree. But there comes a point when we worship and glorify the denomination / catechism / church / pastor and forget that it is our Lord Jesus Christ Who is King, we His body, and all the world are meeting place.
thanks for listening
As for the whole “saved by grace…but you still need to do good works” thing, I will admit i’m often confused by it to.
The illustration I always like is the idea of the tree that bears good fruit. The point is not that “you’re the tree, the fruit is your good works. Your tree needs to make good fruit or you’re getting chopped down”. But you need to realize- trees don’t TRY to produce fruit. There is no willpower to determine whether or not a tree bears fruit. However, a well planted, well cared for tree will automatically produce good fruit, merely as a reaction, not as a decision.
What about you?
In no particular order:
Errantists
Egalitarians
Evolution – Theistic
Wow. Seems like a lot of LibProts and Emergers subscribe to one or more of those listed above.
/begin sarcasm
In no particular order
Inerrantists
Complementarians
Young Earthers
/end sarcasm
I’m a Christian, but I’m plagued by intense doubts, so this is good chance for me to vent.
1. The way the Bible was written- why the heck did God allow so many apparent (not necessarily actual) errors/contradictions in His holy book? Why didn’t he make the doctrines clearer, if doctrine is so important?
2. The complication of the theology debates. Some will say it isn’t complicated, but I simply can’t agree. Totally stuck in the catholic-protestant divide, and it bothers me.
3. Building off the the last two… hell as a consequence for incorrect doctrine. Makes it feel impossible to actually know whether I’m forgiven or not.
Okay, so I was expecting a list of difficult things within Christian truth, but it is predominantly issues about how Church often but doesn’t have to work. #1 and #8 you will have to deal with, but the other 6 can theoretically be removed from the church, or modified to a correct expression.
Stephen I’m a Christian, but I’m plagued by intense doubts, so this is good chance for me to vent.
This can be okay, you seem to have some insight. Ask questions and keep asking.
1. The way the Bible was written- why the heck did God allow so many apparent (not necessarily actual) errors/contradictions in His holy book? Why didn’t he make the doctrines clearer, if doctrine is so important?
Main answer. Because he used people. The desire for God to involve his creatures in his purposes is frankly amazing.
But 3 other comments: 1. the apparent contradictions are not as many as some would suggest, I think the sceptical tend to exaggerate; 2. this leads us to search the Scriptures harder and can greater insight into the ways of God; 3. It gives enough room for belief for those who desire God and enough room for disbelief for those who would mock him.
2. The complication of the theology debates. Some will say it isn’t complicated, but I simply can’t agree. Totally stuck in the catholic-protestant divide, and it bothers me.
We are trying to gain understanding about God here! It is not going to be simple. But the basics are not that hard. Love God, love your neighbour, love justice and mercy and goodness and right behaviour. The Nicean creed is agreed to by pretty much all Christians and it is not too long.
I think the Protestants are closer to the truth, but there are many Catholics who are going to heaven and many Protestants who are not. Find people who love Jesus, Catholic or Protestant or both, and be encouraged by them; and read the Bible.
3. Building off the the last two… hell as a consequence for incorrect doctrine. Makes it feel impossible to actually know whether I’m forgiven or not.
Unlikely. Right doctrine is good and important, but it does not get us into heaven. Following Jesus is the way to heaven.
Lisa: Thanks. That does make sense.
Brad: But what does that mean for however many Christians who feel like they have to try to do good things? They might be lazy, envious, angry, apathetic, etc. and don’t want to work at a soup kitchen, donate money, comfort the mourning, build a well in Africa, teach Sunday school to little kids, etc. etc.? What if all that feels like effort to them? Should they be concerned for their faith?
That’s what I was getting at.
In answer to your question, “What about you?”
http://intheclearing.blogspot.com/2010/03/christian-positive-thinking.html
In my experience #4 feeds #3. Adherence to Christian culture is the sign to others about how Christ like and pious one is.
I hate the whole “God’s will” thing. Some people talk as if every single moment of your life is planned out by God and directed by God. It’s starting to seem to me that God turns us loose with His book and lets us make at least some of our own decisions. But the line between which ones we make and which ones God handles is confusing to me.
I’m not a fan of the well meaning but completely untrue “I guess God needed another angel” comment that people give to families grieving the loss of a child.
I also hate how believers, who are supposed to bear each other’s burdens, will ask each other how they are doing on Sunday morning. They don’t ask because they care. They just ask because it’s polite. Even if you’re not doing well, they won’t take a second out of their own lives to come alongside and offer assistance.
Michael, I agree with you on the sniper ministry comment. It doesn’t make sense to me that some ministries seem to exist for no reason other than to sling mud at other ministries.
Eric S. I agree, Is God meticously sovereign in everything we do or do we have some sort of free will. I lean toward free will but certainly understand that God is in control but allows things to happen in our lives. People spend so much time searchng for his will in our lives when scripture is clear that we are to love, obey and spread the news about our Saviour in all aspects of our life, so why get so difinitive.
My second hated aspect of Christianity is whether or not Prayer changes God’s mind………..or is prayer really just for US….our benefit …..doesn’t change the outcome. I pray as we are told bibically to do…..I just don’t always see corelation to answers which I guess is a mystery though probably not to God.
Lastly, CMP and this blog site, My wife is getting Jealous….with all the time I spend here. (LOL)
Oh Yea! Lisa Robinson: I hate having to repeat to myself” That’s what I was trying to say after reading her comments.
Blessings:
“Oh Yea! Lisa Robinson: I hate having to repeat to myself” That’s what I was trying to say after reading her comments.”
Jim, can you clarify? I’m confused.
Did I say Lastly, I mean it now:(really)
Jesus Christ , superstar (the movie)
My wife saw it at a theatre so went out and rented it to watch at home…(I must become more of a complementarim)
Michael, you’re gonna get your glutes “discerned” for #6. 😉
Hey Michael… aren’t #4 and #5 a bit contradictory? we need to be different, but we need to look like the world…? perhaps #4 should be about “artificiality”..? or external trappings..? what do you think?
1. Fideistic, rationalistic or postmodern theology (This could probably fall under number two).
2. Culture-driven Christianity. How some evangelicals grovel at the feet of celebrities such as John and Kate Gosselin, Carrie Prejean, that guy from Korn who just wrote a book, Stephen Baldwin, Mel Gibson and Bono etc.
Intellectually this includes those who bow before the “secular” academy in humble surrender as the ultimate authority. That is the fascination by some to integrate ideas that are totally alien to the Christian worldview with Christianity. We’re really cool (and smart) when we don’t make any appeal to God’s revelation in apologetics or interpret God’s revelation according to alien frameworks built on autonomous (and irrational) assumptions. The idea seems to be that the argument that carries more weight is one built on “secular” assumptions. “The fear of the Culture is the beginning of wisdom.”
3. My own fear and failure when it comes to evangelizing and defending the faith.
4. Process theology
5. Church names that include words like “Porch”
6. Anti-intellectualism: When Christians call themselves Christians, but show no evidence whatsoever of submission to Christ’s lordship. That is they have no desire to grow in the Knowledge of God, learn to articulate their worldview to others, or have the slightest idea as to why it’s true.
7. Fundamentalist isolation
8. Blogs that talk about what they hate about Christianity . . .wait 🙂
9. Cheesy hymns from the 1920s to 1940s
Lisa: Sorry!! I simply meant that you always give clear thought and word in your posts, You always say what I want to say but I seem to be not so clear!! Such as you not understanding my last comment (LOL) ……
You write well and I enjoy your dialogue on the many things we discuss on this site!!! Thanks
“This is hands down the most difficult doctrine in the Christian faith…. If I could find some sort of loop-hole to get out of believing in the doctrine of an eternal hell, I would. If there was such a thing as a Christianity that did not necessitate a belief in hell, I would submit my resume.”
I am aware that I have cut out the parts of your statement in which you recognize that hell is an exegetical fact. Thank you for including those statement. I think you are being very introspective in thinkin you do not like your thoughts about hell. However, you seem to be suggesting (correct me if I am reading you wrong) that while you believe in hell, that doctrine is not where your heart lies.
I am not one that will not be sympathetic with you on your feelings. I appreciate what is in your head, but not what you feel. The distance between my sin and the holiness of God is something I feel. I feel the fear and reverence for the sovereignty of God. I feel Gods holiness. As RCSproul said, Gods holiness is the only attribute mentioned in triplicate in the scripture. He is “holy holy holy,” but nowhere is he “love love love.” I know that God loves me, but I do feel everyone should have an equal chance to be loved by God. I feel no one deserves that love at all. I does not amaze me that God hated Esau, but that God loves Jacob. I dont see any faults in God even if he were to send all to hell.
Romans 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?
Josh,
I’m also new to Christianity and the thing that I have had to do is ask God for a heart of servant hood and remove the sense of obligation that comes from a heart of servitude. I think Matt Chandler said it well when he stated that (and I’m paraphrasing),
” Our growing knowledge of God will produce good works but good works do not bring us into a right relationship with God”. Basically good works are the product of knowing Him and spending time in His Word and reading books than increase your knowledge of who he is.
Josh, “But what does that mean for however many Christians who feel like they have to try to do good things? They might be lazy, envious, angry, apathetic, etc. and don’t want to work at a soup kitchen, donate money, comfort the mourning, build a well in Africa, teach Sunday school to little kids, etc. etc.? What if all that feels like effort to them? Should they be concerned for their faith?”
My thought would be that you shouldn’t worry about that now. Don’t force yourself to do these things. Making yourself do them isn’t going to bring the assurance of salvation you are perhaps hoping for. Take a look instead at the fruit of the Spirit in Gal. 5: 22-23 : love, joy, peace, patience (long-suffering), kindness, goodness, faithfulness and self-control. These are qualities, or fruit, that God works in us….not that we work in ourselves. If one is a true convert then God’s indwelling Holy Spirit begins a work of sanctification from the inside out. The fruit of the Spirit does not come about in one’s life by self-effort….nor should you expect to be ‘accomplished’ in these things on short-order. As Lisa has said, the good thing to do is to focus on getting to know Jesus. Cultivate a love for God’s Word; spend time there.
While it is true that a believer will bear good fruit, and a non-convert will bear bad fruit, be careful about thinking that if you, or someone else, is not teaching SS or giving to the poor (and doesn’t really desire to do so)…such a person (or yourself) might not be saved. Relax about that! Invest in your relationship with the Lord. Talk to Him a lot, listen, by reading His word, and you will see Him working the fruit of the Spirit into your life. Be encouraged by that! And someday you might find yourself having a strong desire to serve God outwardly in some way, or really caring about some hurting person you know. Don’t force the works. Ask God to change your heart to desire what He desires for you.
#s 2 and 5 Michael are spot on! I truly hate it when those who have an intellectual basis of understanding, i.e. they have been trained, deny or lessen that understanding to pander to the “culture, for the sake of appealing to a certain demographic. To me it it seems when this happens we are saying ” the ideas and understandings of Christianity are so complex and difficult for you to understand, that we are going to ignore them for the sake of getting you in the door. THEN we will have a chance to “get you saved.”
We in evangelical churches it seems struggle to portray the truth of the doctrines we claim, to those who we are attempting to reach. Its almost as if we are embarrassed and afraid that they may not come back unless we dumb down what we know and present it in a way that they will say, “hey THATS what IM talking about! and want to return next Sunday. Why, instead of dumbing down our message to appeal, do we not raise the expectation. The message of grace and truth appeals and the doctrines of our belief appeal. Yet I am sad that we continue to reach for the low understanding rather than raise to the higher.
Susan: Thank you! That makes such wonderful sense. 🙂
That the main message of the Bible, ie: salvation through Jesus Christ alone, gets all but forgotten in the things we hate or love about “Christianity”.
The separation of the masses by giving ourselves a name different from anyone else. Can’t we just spread the Good News about Christ without all the mess of other stuff. I get the whole understanding God’s Word and have a personal passion for the deep study, but the message of the Atonement is the reason, period. We need to keep that in the forfront. God is able and willing to do the rest for us poor inept souls that think we have anything to do after accepting Him. I know all you Calvanist/Armenians out there, just forget commenting I already know all the arguments. Thanks.
Great post Michael…now if I can just get my hands on this “girls gone wild bible study” ahaha…oh man some churches just don’t know when to stop.
I have difficulty with those who constantly/regularly preach (usually in a series) on “How to be a better….(parent, spouse, steward, etc…).” They seem to leave out the centrality of the gospel, overlook deeper theological truths, and focus in on only one or two applications.
It eventually becomes a form of “Moralistic Therapeutic Deism”.
On #2, anyone who claims there isn’t any evidence for what we believe needs to read some good British authors like C.S. and N.T.
I read this blog almost every day and very rarely say something, but with this post you have hit a nerve. Number 1 is something I have struggled with since I first became a christian 10 years ago. My whole faith and understanding of God (or, more accurately, my ability to love God) is severely shaken every time this issue comes to mind. I’ve tried picturing God as “holyholyholy” and thus free to do whatever he pleases (and it would be Good just because He does it) but I just can’t wrap my mind around it. Are we depraved? Sure. But God isn’t. To me, forgiveness, not punishment, is the ultimate demonstration of his holiness. Furthermore, it seems bizarre that I, a mere human portal of God’s love, would feel such repulsion at the thought of hell but He, having infinitely more love, would allow it to exist. It’s one thing when we think of serial killers, rapists, tyrants. But a whole different story when I think of my grandmother, who as an atheist demonstrates more love and has more of a servant’s heart than any christian I know. The concept of a God who would allow her to suffer eternal punishment because of her unbelief is….unfathomable. it fills me with mind-numbing hatred and fear. Terror, that this is the sort of entity running our universe. It just seems so different from the God I know. The one who wants us to take care of orphans and widows and love the unlovable.
Pardon the rant. In short, I agree with number 1, except that I can no longer believe in Hell as such (eternal punishment for all who don’t believe in Jesus Christ as the son of God) and continue to love God. I am at an impasse.
Bethyada,
I appreciate your points. I would agree entirely with your response to #1, and some aspects of #2.
However, when you responded to my third point you said…
“Right doctrine is good and important, but it does not get us into heaven. Following Jesus is the way to heaven.”
I believe that in a sense… and wish I could more adamantly affirm it, but details get in the way. When you say “right doctrine is good and important, but it does not get us into heaven”, that is a doctrinal judgment in itself, which must be defended just like other doctrinal judgments. At which point we are back to my 2nd point about the difficulty of theological debates.
In addition, almost every Christian I know of would say that certain doctrines (the deity of Christ, His physical incarnation, death, and resurrection, for example) are absolutely necessary to a relationship with the “real Jesus”. If I decided to follow Jesus as a Mormon or Jehovah’s witness, many Christians would say I’m on a path to hell (since they deny the Trinity). Others would add Catholicism and many versions of Protestantism to that list. They may say that I will begin to accept right doctrine if I’m truly saved, rather than say that I need right doctrine TO be saved, but the practical result is the same.
The point is that saying “just follow Jesus” is loaded with unsaid doctrinal judgments, and thus doesn’t get around the difficulty of doctrinal debates, their importance to the state of my soul, or the fear of hell that these two previous points bring out.
There’s no such thing as hell. Feel better.
On your #2, anyone who thinks there are no “reasons” for Christianity must not have read Paul’s trip to Thessalonica and Athens recently: “And according to Paul’s custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures” “So he was reasoning in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Gentiles, and in the market place every day with those who happened to be present.” [Acts 17:2,17]
Logic and reason are intertwined and spread throughout the Bible.
I’d also venture to address your item #1: Hell.
Specifically, Hell was prepared for the Devil and his angels because they rebelled against God. It was designed to punish beings for whom there would never be a chance of redemption.
When we, through Adam, rebelled against God by eating form the tree we were told not to, should there not have been punishment for us as well? There was a very simple consequence given by God to Adam: eat and you shall die.
He ate, he introduced death to creation. Yes, God *did* have a plan of salvation available from before the creation knowing that His perfect creation would not remain such, but if the law was broken, the consequences should be paid.
Lastly, your point #7: testimonies.
When I was younger, I used to envy folks who had been radically converted from gross sin to faith in Jesus. *THEY* had a story. *THEY* could really show forth God’s love, grace, and mercy.
But when I was converted, I realized that a) I had done things just as bad (just less public), and b) because I *DIDN’T* have those “major” sins in my past, I didn’t have to suffer the consequences of those specifically.
God’s grace, love, and mercy is just as faithfully shown in saving a “church kid” as it is in rescuing a Hitler.
#1 is definitely the hardest for me, too.
liZard, I understand where you are and feel similar. That said, I know I’m fallible in my own reasoning and I trust God’s character, so I accept Hell as not only real but “necessary”. I hope and pray you will be able to get beyond your impasse and accept the clear teaching of scripture.
Don Maurer, I think I get what you are saying, though the wording seemed a little unclear so forgive me if I get it wrong. My experience with my own sinfulness alternately makes me a) want to excuse/hide it b) fall on my knees in gratitude to God. I’ve never had it lead me to “feel” Hell as right or proper even though I understand (at least I think I do) it to be so.
Josh wrote: With that said, I’m still having trouble coming to terms with legalism vs. “faith that produces good works.”
I think the primary difference between legalism and sanctification is the attitude as well as the motivation behind the works. The former is man-centered; the latter is God-centered.
Legalists want to perform good deeds so that they can feel good about themselves, especially after comparing themselves to other “less holy” Christians around them. Hence the focus is on an outward appearance of holiness. Consequently, legalists love to create new rules which are hard to follow and have little to do with loving God and loving our neighbors. Legalists spend most of their time judging others in the church, rather than examining their own works to see if their faith is real. You will notice that the legalists’ motivation for doing good actually has little to do with God.
On the other hand, Christians who are in the process of sanctification seek to perform good works because they WANT to love God and love others. For such Christians, the transformation to become like Christ is as much inwardly as it is outwardly. Sanctifying Christians do not seek to exhibit their religiosity publicly and do not itch to be known. When such Christians judge other Christians, the motivation isn’t to feel good about themselves. Rather, the intent is to build up the church as a community of saints, helping one another to become more like Christ.
Also, legalists are PROUD of their good works. Sanctifying Christians continually mourn their wretched sinfulness and do not think much of their good works.
I would say it is the nature of sinners to be legalists. Until we appear in our glorified bodies, none of us are entirely free of having a legalistic mindset. Our hearts can be very deceitful. It is part of the process of sanctification to learn to discern our true motivations – when are we being legalistic and when are we truly seeking to love Christ our Lord.
[…] just read a very fine blog entry from a person detailing 8 things he hates about Christianity. I thought I would follow […]
Michael P. …And Y’all,
I’m a bit at a loss for words (despite appearances :), partly because during the past week I’ve had to deal with the death of one person, the slow dying from cancer of two other friends, questions from non-believers about hell, a “proud Deist” who refuses Christ but puts most Christians I know (including myself) to shame by her selfless loving and giving, and, to top it all off, I’ve had to “cringe” around wonderful Christian friends who would, very unfortunately, only pretend to agree with your post here, Michael. I’m not exactly sure how to proceed, because I don’t want any misunderstandings or hurt feelings, but…here goes: 1. I agree with every word you’ve written in this article, Michael; 2. I don’t understand why an honest Christian (Yes, I said “honest Christian” on purpose) would not understand and agree with you–perhaps with the exception of a “younger” Christian like Josh (and BTW, thanks for your candidness, Josh! Appreciated and very important!). 3. My harshest (hopefully not arrogant) comment/question: Can any one of you who has posted a disagreement with this article (fortunately still your freedom!) really, really–honestly–pass through your day tomorrow without thinking that, perhaps, you’ve rationalized away ideas that you don’t want to accept, because you think they are “wrong thoughts”, thoughts that God might “get you for”? Again, I know this sounds somewhat condescending. Apologies! But really, really and truly, truly the reality of real life that the personal and loving “I Am” created is mostly wonderful and beautiful, hopeful and faith inspiring…and evil beyond most of our experience. But–BUT–God thinks this is best! Go figure–as long as you first consult Job, Jonah and Judas first. I’m just say’n….
its all GOD… if there is one…. so whatever
Eight Things I Hate About Christianity
I hate people who hate things about Christianity.
😉
Ditto to number one. After 11 years in the faith my revulsion to the idea has only grown stronger. I think the biblical case for annihilationism is quite good– but the consequences of being wrong about this when speaking to others prevents me from fully embracing the view.
Oh, in before the watchbloggers flood the comments 😀
TUAD says:
“Eight Things I Hate About Christianity
I hate people who hate things about Christianity”
Then you must hate CMP. This is, after all, his post! I thought we were supposed to hate that which came against Christ, not the people themselves.
Well, one of the things that frustrate me most are doctrines that paint God’s character as being bipolar at best and sadomasochistic at worst, such as the traditional hell doctrine.
LiZard:
Thanks for your honesty! I too have loved ones (Mother & Father) who passed when I was 6 years old & raised in the United Church (salvation unknown) I live each day in denial of Hell, the thought of them perhaps being eternally punished I give bibical consent to but not my heart and soul. Try thinking about that every day and continue to find Joy in any human pleasure. There are worst things than death.
Having said this, I do believe that I struggle worshiping that side of God who would set this up as part of his plan. Except, maybe he has to!!!
Perhaps his character which is sooo holy or at least some attribute of himself demands a separation of the wheat and chaff.
I agree that the problem for me too lies in the idea that separation from God is not enough but he would knowingly cause pain and suffering eternally with no possible conclusion or outcome except the eternal torment. As one writer stated, maybe it’s just our feeble minds or our concept of Love in human standards that is causing this struggle from within. We are sin marred humans.
In him,